We're told that Jon Tuffley modifies any ideas we give him, because he's
worried about the legal aspects of using our stuff.
I'm not sure what he's worried about. When we sign on to this listing don't we
all agree that anything that we post is not "ours" anymore, and can be freely
used by GZG?
Besides, I agree with the others: if I saw my name in the credits of a new
rulebook or expansion, after jumping around a bit, I'd probably buy an extra
copy just so that I could frame that page. It would probably be a high point
of my life (sadly).
Besides, if you couldn't parley that into a few bennies at your local gaming
store or convention, you're not trying!:>
Here's hoping!
Out here.
-monty
*&$%# ignore this %$#@!--> I'm not sure what Jon (Tuffley) is worried
about,
Under American copyright laws, if a person writes something, she has the
copyright; i.e., there's no implied waiver of copyright (at least not by
subscribing to an email list). Tuffley is correct to be worried about the
legal implications. The easiest thing to do would probably be for him to offer
to "buy" any ideas that he wants to use for $1, which would probably protect
him. Alternatively, he might note that unless GZG starts making a whole lot of
cash, it's unlikely that any one is going to have a financial incentive
sufficient to override their morals.
RK
> > We're told that Jon Tuffley modifies any ideas we
> On Thu, 26 Sep 1996, Rukesh Korde wrote:
> Under American copyright laws, if a person writes something, she has
Not really -- can you inagine trying to PROVE that you wrote an e-mail
message?
Electronic mail is so incredibly easy to fake that there's no guarantee you
wrote ANYTHING, unless you keep a separate copy on your local hard disk.
> Not really -- can you inagine trying to PROVE that you wrote an e-mail
Not really. All you have to do is show that the chances are greater than 50%
that you actually wrote the thing, which would be easy enough: just
supboena the back-up tapes of the relevant server for the relevant time
period.
RK
> At 01:42 PM 9/26/96 -0400, you wrote:
I believe this is in the Berne Convention, to which I think every country of
every member of this group belongs.
> Tuffley is correct to be worried about the
Okay, but what if I came up with a really neat way of doing true vector
movement in FT and Jon uses it in a supplement. Later, I write an SF ship
combat game of my own (this is all hypothetical) and use the same passage of
text for the rule. Who's rule is it? Although it's unlikely that I could make
any money from suing Jon, I get free legal advice (my wife's a law clerk) and
I could make life difficult enough for Jon that he might have to fold his
business to pay for legal expenses. It's all very hypothetical (and I'd never
think of doing it) but it's possible.
The easiest way around it, if everyone wants to, is to SPECIFICALLY state in
your posting that you give first publication rights to Jon Tuffley. You can
state that your payment for such an act is mention in the credits of his book.
Then Jon can either copy freely and include you in the credits, or do as he
has been.
If anyone is interested in this, I can get my wife to come up with a suitable
legal clause to cover it. It's copyright law, so it's about as universal as
laws get (which is to say, not really), but because we're Canadian, there are
actually cases of Canadian law using British and
American precidents so we're as close to a legal go-between as you're
likely to see.
Any thoughts on this?
> At 02:58 PM 9/26/96 -0400, you wrote:
Yes, but the burden of proof is on you, not Jon, in a copyright case. You
don't keep a copy (preferably notorized or witnessed, and there are a whole
pack of witnesses on this group) then you're out of luck.
All right, here goes...
I, Robert M. Montgomery, hereby state that any ideas from any postings of mine
to this server, past or present, are freely usable by Jon Tuffley of Ground
Zero Games for use in publications. I agree that I shall receive no
compensation for this usage, other than possibly a mention in the credits of
said publications. The decision to include my name in the credits or not will
be the decision of the aforementioned Jon Tuffley (but would be really neat!)
**************
I think that ought to cover it. Obviously, some may wonder who the hell I
think I am, thinking I've posted some great ideas that Jon would even want to
use, but I may get a great inspiration some day.
The way I see it now, if I ever come up with an idea that I want to bounce off
people and still maintain proprietary rights to, I
can do so by private e-mail.
Not that that should ever happen. I don't learn FT with the idea that I might
make some money from it someday.
Anyway, back to the not-so-real world of fun and games.
Out here.
-monty
> I believe this is in the Berne Convention, to which I think every
Yes, but most nations have their own interpretation of the convetion, which is
important...read on...
> Okay, but what if I came up with a really neat way of doing true
Exactly the problem: when things are going well, no ever thinks that they
would litigate, but toss enough money, or whatever, into the equation, and
SOMEONE will.
> The easiest way around it, if everyone wants to, is to SPECIFICALLY
You can
> state that your payment for such an act is mention in the credits of
I would be very hestitant about this for two reasons. (1) as I mentioned
above, interpretation of Berne differs from nation to nation, as a result a
waiver may have applicablity in one jurisdiction, but be ruled ineffective in
another. It would be inadvisable for anyone but an international copyright
attorney (i.e., someone who knows the
ins-and-outs of the Berne convention and various copyright laws in
America, Canada, England and all the other countries represented on the list)
to draft a waiver, bec. (2) a mistake in the drafting could expose
the drafting attorney to malpractice liability.
Unfortunate as it sounds, I think Tuffley is currently pursuing the best
policy, as least from a legal standpoint.
> After lots of discussion of legal rules, someone wrote:
> Unfortunate as it sounds, I think Tuffley is currently pursuing the
I think people are missing the point somewhat.
Perhaps Jon Tuffley reshapes other peoples ideas before he publishes not for
any legalistic reasons, but rather because he prefers to do so.
What I mean by this is that as a designer he may have a strong personnal
vision of the game and the setting he is producing, and with this may well
prefer to include things the way he thinks of them rather than directly as
supplied by other people.
This is not meant to be a criticism of Jon, just a possible reason for
choosing to act in that manner.
> On Fri, 27 Sep 1996 RMMDC@jazz.ucc.uno.edu wrote:
Me too:
I, Reginald Rutherford IV, hereby state that any ideas from any postings of
mine to this server, past or present, are freely usable by Jon Tuffley of
Ground Zero Games for use in publications. I agree that I shall receive no
compensation for this usage, other than possibly a mention in the credits of
said publications. The decision to include my name in the credits or not will
be the decision of the aforementioned Jon Tuffley (but if it did appear in the
credits, I would be free to jump up and down and scream like a girl).
**************
On Fri, 27 Sep 1996 RMMDC@jazz.ucc.uno.edu wrote an excellent text which
I hereby shamelessly copy for my own use (but not for my own gain):
I, Ãrjan Ohlson, hereby state that any ideas from any postings of mine to
this server, past or present, are freely usable by Jon Tuffley of Ground Zero
Games for use in publications. I agree that I shall receive no compensation
for this usage, other than possibly a mention in the credits of said
publications. The decision to include my name in the credits or not will be
the decision of the aforementioned Jon Tuffley (but if it did appear in the
credits, I would be free to jump up and down and scream like a girl).
Let's all do it. :-)
I, Robin Paul, hereby state that any ideas from any postings of mine to this
server, past or present, are freely usable by Jon Tuffley of Ground Zero Games
for use in publications. I agree that I shall receive no compensation for this
usage, other than possibly a mention in the credits of said publications. The
decision to include my name in the credits or not will be the decision of the
aforementioned Jon Tuffley (but if it did appear in the credits, I would be
free to jump up and down and scream like a girl).
Rob
Date sent: 30-SEP-1996 16:27:09
> Let's all do it. :-)
Oh, please DON'T!
The last thing I want is 200 of these circulated. However, if you ever write
to Jon, or place mail order with GZG (but not Geohex, they probably wouldn't
like it) you might want to include a written waiver. (It'll hold more weight
than electronic one anyway.)
I still think it would be better to wait until Jon gets in contact with you.
I, as well,
I, Michael Carter Llaneza, hereby state that any ideas from any postings of
mine to this server, past or present, are freely usable by Jon Tuffley of
Ground Zero Games for use in publications. I agree that I shall receive no
compensation for this usage, other than possibly a mention in the credits of
said publications. The decision to include my name in the credits or not will
be the decision of the
aforementioned Jon Tuffley. This notice is for a single-person limited
license of copy right, extended to Jon Tuffley and/or Ground Zero Games
solely applicable to copywriten material posted on the FTGZG email list. This
limited license is in no way a cession of copyright, reprint rights,
authorship or other claims of intellectual property. I reserve the right to
republish my material and ideas either in identical or altered form, via any
media, physical or electronic.
suitable nods to Mike Wikan for the boilerplate above. I just needed to
make my right to re-use anything I post explicit.