Counter Battery

8 posts ยท Aug 23 1999 to Aug 25 1999

From: Alan and Carmel Brain <aebrain@w...>

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:44:04 +1000

Subject: Re: Counter Battery

> Ryan M Gill wrote:

> > True for todays battlefield but in the future how about rounds that

A simple discarding sabot would fix this. Make the RAM coating ablative, and
the shell is stealthed from Radar.

What you CAN'T fix easily is the black-body radiation of a shell
travelling fast through the atmosphere. IOW Passive Infra-Red will see
the extremely hot shells quite easily, regardless of coatings. Maybe
refrigeration might work, but then the trail of disturbed air would

From: Ryan Gill <rmgill@m...>

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:58:41 -0400 (EDT)

Subject: Counter Battery

DS probably makes it too ineffective considering the way it works. The roll
should be automatic if the guy doesn't move and chancy if he delivers an
effective mission. A harrasing mission should give automatic

miss on the CBR delivery.

See the following...

www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/6-20-1

specifically look in chapter 5 where it talks about the weapons locating

radar...

From: David <dluff@e...>

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:37:21 -0400

Subject: Re: Counter Battery

True for todays battlefield but in the future how about rounds that are meant
to jam or confuse a battery radar on its location, filling the sky with
reflective particals?

> Ryan M Gill wrote:

From: Ryan Gill <rmgill@m...>

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:58:52 -0400 (EDT)

Subject: Re: Counter Battery

> On Tue, 24 Aug 1999, David wrote:

> True for todays battlefield but in the future how about rounds that

True, however its not hard to see the rounds in flight once propellant gasses
and crap have worn away at the radar absorbent material on the ogive and
driving bands of the projectile.

From: Popeyesays@a...

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:17:06 EDT

Subject: Re: Counter Battery

In a message dated 8/24/99 2:06:26 PM Central Daylight Time,
> monty@arcadia.turner.com writes:

<<
True, however its not hard to see the rounds in flight once propellant gasses
and crap have worn away at the radar absorbent material on the ogive and
driving bands of the projectile.
> [quoted text omitted]

The only solution to the problem of counter-battery fire would be to use

rocket projectiles that deliberately maneuver in their launch phase, a
solution which requires guidance thrusters and programming for the rocket
which removes it almost entirely from the definition of artillery which is
ballistic in nature.

From: Andrew Martin <Al.Bri@x...>

Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:18:08 +1200

Subject: Re: Counter Battery

> Popeyesays@aol.com wrote:

If you want to see an implementation of this in DSII, see my site here:
                http://members.xoom.com/AndrewMartin/DSII/
in the artillery and GMS sections.

From: Thomas Barclay <Thomas.Barclay@s...>

Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 11:16:47 -0400

Subject: Counter Battery

> From the list:
The only solution to the problem of counter-battery fire would be to
use rocket projectiles that deliberately maneuver in their launch phase, a
solution which requires guidance thrusters and programming for the rocket
which removes it almost entirely from the definition of artillery which is
ballistic in nature.

**
I'm sure there are other solutions. Coat arty round in stealth material. No
reflection, no doppler shift to pick up. No CBR. Have all arty round have fins
and intelligent controllers so they "random walk" around a given trajectory
making interception or backtracing difficult. Put EW drones up that jam enemy
CBR. CBR is active (there may be passive CB systems, but they won't give you a
minute firing point fix instantly) so it could be jammed, or HARM'd by either
an
arty launched strike, MRLS, or a HARM (radar homing missile - similar
to type used by US to take out AA FC) from the air.

The point Los made a long time back comes to mind: For every offense, a
defence evolves. Then a new offense. Any superiority is only for a brief
period. The only constant is that good tactics will (most often) beat bad
tactics, though some luck helps.

From: Ryan Gill <rmgill@m...>

Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:27:41 -0400 (EDT)

Subject: Re: Counter Battery

> On Mon, 23 Aug 1999, Alan E and Carmel J Brain wrote:

> A simple discarding sabot would fix this. Make the RAM coating

So you reduce the amount of HE you can carry per shell. Reduces the amount of
MINES and Sub munitions for killing tanks too...

[other measures and coutermeasure deleted]

So really it looks like folks need to deliver their mission ultra quick and
then skedaddle.

> So the only thing to do when you can't decrease the signal is increase

Ok, make another unit for my aircraft to target with little effort....