Personally I like the core systems threshold rules, without them the games
tend to turn into brute slugging matches. With the old rules, games we played
with a mix of cruisers, escorts and capital ships tended to wind up
with all the small ships blown to m-cee square while the big boys
continued to slug it out. It got to where it was a little like Wooden Ships &
Iron Men in space. The capital ships were "fit to lie in the line of battle"
while the small fry, if they wanted to live, had best hang back and pick off
cripples, stragglers, etc. which is about all frigates, sloops etc. would do
in fleet engagements in the age of sail (that and scouting, which, come to
think of it has a parallel in using escorts as sensor pickets). Battlecruiser
class ships even mirrored the dilemma of the old 50 gun 4th
rates -- fit for the line of battle, but only barely so.
With the core thresholds, not to mention salvo missles and improved Pulse
Torpedoes, the little ships fast forward to WWI. Sure they're still pretty
vulnerable but they have a chance of doing significant, even crippling damage.
By unleashing them at crucial moments you can turn the tide of battle, like
the German destroyer attacks at Jutland that forced Jellicoe to turn away and
allowed Scheer to disengage.
Naval history is full of lucky hits that turned the tide of battles. Like the
Bismark, rudder crippled by a lucky torpedo hit, steaming in circles while the
British pummelled it at leisure. Or at Jutland the magazine hits that blew the
Queen Mary, Indefatigable and Invincible out of the water and prompted
Beatty's "there's something wrong
with our bloody ships" -- and was exactly what happened to the Hood 25
years later.
-M
> In a message dated 6/24/99 10:59:29 AM EST, edens@mindspring.com writes:
<<
Personally I like the core systems threshold rules, without them the games
tend to turn into brute slugging matches. With the old rules, games we played
with a mix of cruisers, escorts and capital ships tended to wind up
with all the small ships blown to m-cee square while the big boys
continued to slug it out. It got to where it was a little like Wooden Ships &
Iron Men in space. The capital ships were "fit to lie in the line of battle"
while the small fry, if they wanted to live, had best hang back and pick off
cripples, stragglers, etc. which is about all frigates, sloops etc. would do
in fleet engagements in the age of sail (that and scouting, which, come to
think of it has a parallel in using escorts as sensor pickets). Battlecruiser
class ships even mirrored the dilemma of the old 50 gun 4th
rates -- fit for the line of battle, but only barely so.
With the core thresholds, not to mention salvo missles and improved Pulse
Torpedoes, the little ships fast forward to WWI. Sure they're still pretty
vulnerable but they have a chance of doing significant, even crippling damage.
By unleashing them at crucial moments you can turn the tide of battle, like
the German destroyer attacks at Jutland that forced Jellicoe to turn away and
allowed Scheer to disengage.
Naval history is full of lucky hits that turned the tide of battles. Like the
Bismark, rudder crippled by a lucky torpedo hit, steaming in circles while the
British pummelled it at leisure. Or at Jutland the magazine hits that blew the
Queen Mary, Indefatigable and Invincible out of the water and prompted
Beatty's "there's something wrong
with our bloody ships" -- and was exactly what happened to the Hood 25
years later.
> [quoted text omitted]
Well put, I haven't played wih the core threshold rules, but I should imagine
they would improve play for balanced squadrons immensely.
Several years ago (when I was still playing Starfire...) I had came up with my
own "core systems rules" for that game. Like your example, it was amazing how
a lucky shot could cripple the most powerfull of ships...It really spiced up
the game too.
I can't conceive of playing without core systems failure rules. I guess my
message can be classified as a "Me Too" post so I will also throw in that I
think that the luck factor in any wargame is what makes or breaks it. I know
there are a lot of players that want to maximize the percentages but then
wargaming would turn into simple chart lookup. <G> I prefer skirting the edges
of probabilty and embracing that fickle mistress, Lady Luck.
-=Kr'rt, in an awkwardly poetic moment. <G>
> Personally I like the core systems threshold rules, without them the
> Naval history is full of lucky hits that turned the tide of
G'day,
> I can't conceive of playing without core systems failure rules.
We go one step further and can't conceive of playing without the 'strike
the colours' rule - the groans of agony/elation when an SDN throws in
the towel after losing only a class 1 or something are magic! But probably not
for the faint hearted;)
> I know there are a lot of players that want to
You may (or may not) be interested to know that there's been the joking
mention by a couple of gamers of trying to adapt Full Thrust to the Piquet
system - I think the guy who first brought it up suggested it be called
Erratic Thrust....
Then you'd know ALL about the fickle mistress Lady Luck - and it
wouldn't be left up to poor sods like Indy and I to carry the curse of the 1
for you all, not that we begrudge our heavy load....;)
Cheers
Beth
[quoted original message omitted]
G'day Laserlight,
> You DO realize, Beth, that the more dice you roll, the more ones you'll
Yeah OK rub it in, but who's going to be laughing when you roll sixes for your
core systems?
;)
Beth
> You may (or may not) be interested to know that there's been the joking
whats that then?
I believe Piquet hinges on building a deck of "phases", I'll call them, which
describes how your fleet behaves (fighter heavy fleets might have more
"Fighters attack" cards). The deck is shuffled and each side alternates using
cards to activate units. The fickle hand of fate can mean that your SDN
doesn't act until very late in the game, or maneouvres into a great position
but doesn't happen to fire for a long time, etc.
> At 09:39 AM 6/30/99 +1000, you wrote:
I have to agree with you there, Beth. Nothing more satisfying than watching a
Superdreadnaught strike the colours after on its second threshold checks while
a poor little Corvette keeps fighting until the bitter end.
To make the "Strike the Colours" rules a little less severe, we play it like a
core system. It makes checks one step higher then the current threshold.
Avoids players getting seriously peeved when a ship strikes after only the
first row of damage.
G'day Kelvin,
> To make the "Strike the Colours" rules a little less severe, we play it
That's how we play it too and it works really well, though Noam wouldn't like
it because he's on Teske's side and always rolls 6s, doesn't like it when
those 6s turn against him hey?....;P
Cheers
Beth 'Like Noam is gonna show me ANY mercy in Showdown now' Fulton
On Thu, 01 Jul 1999 09:24:35 +1000 Kelvin <kx.henderson@qut.edu.au>
writes:
> At 09:39 AM 6/30/99 +1000, you wrote:
Sigh, I must be getting old for sure, are these Strike the Colors in the
rule books? For the life of me I cant seem to find them!!
> To make the "Strike the Colours" rules a little less severe, we play
G'day Jim,
> Sigh, I must be getting old for sure, are these Strike the Colors in
Yep they sure are, its in More Thrust pg 8 (between fleet morale and squadran
operations for large fleets).
Cheers
Beth