1) chip fab in a box: who fixes it? It fixes itself, silly! My colonial
micro-machine shops come with a self-diagnostic DPU subsystem which can
temporarily control the nanofabricators to create repair parts and then
control the micromanipulators to install them.
2) colnies without educated people? Not from the NAC I think. I think if
you look at who might want to get off-earth, you may find a lot of
people who have valuable skills and want to craft a future for themselves away
from Big Brother and in a place where they can (instead of being stuck in the
technocratic middle class) aspire to real riches as an important founder of
the colony. I think there has historically been sufficient numbers of these
people to believe that colonies won't have a problem with some basic equipment
maintenance and repair. Sure, you're main computer engineer may also double as
an electrical engineer, a guy who rebuilds electric motors, and the expert on
transmission lines and comms systems in a smaller outpost world. But the
expertise is likley to be there, especially given the cost of colony
establishment.
No one will create colonies to fail - its probably to expensive!
3) colony math. Not saying this is right, but think on it. Ever play Stars!
Computer game? If so, you'll realize their growth model was an S curve. For
max growth, it was key to get your colonies out of the low part of the S
quickly. Some players setup small colonies, like the ones I think you suggest,
and then they slowly grew into sufficiency and the faster middle part of the
growth curve. Smarter players threw some more resources out at the front end
to drop critical mass colonies in place
ready-to-produce and ended up with much higher aggregate population and
economic growth rates. What does this suggest? That perhaps laying a colony
out with sufficient people and infrastructure at the front end,
within a 10 year period say, just makes sense - the returns come in
larger and sooner. So if a country is paying for the colony, bet that such
will be the strategy. If a group of people are trying to leave,
they may not be able to manage this so they get a slow-start colony. But
major countries/powers will probably try to get their colonies to hit
the ground running (unless they are strictly using them to bleed political
problem people or spare population, in which case they aren't
looking at them as value-return propositions).
4) Brian's point about armament levels in colonies. Let us say I end up on a
world with flora, but not fauna. And the flora is abundant and not terribly
threatening. And the colonists are from a peaceable people. Are they likely to
be heavily armed? Nope. Of course, pirates and such will still be a danger, so
some arms will be present. Possibly private security or intensive lobbying
upon the parent government for adequate
protection may be a factor too. But not _all_ colonies will be bristling
with guns. I think the idea of a Quaker colony or an Amish colony is pretty
cool. I don't think these will be UberArmedCamps.
> At 7:35 PM -0500 1/29/02, Tomb wrote:
Wow. Really, even Fax machines come with Backup systems? Does that mean we
don't need the Armored recovery vehicle for the tanks in a battle? I mean if
the nanites can fix the basic technology fax machine by themselves, couldn't
each tank carry around a barrel full of them to fix the broken track, grav
impeller, wheel, smoking hole in the armor?
> 2) colnies without educated people? Not from the NAC I think. I think
Not with out. But why is a Computer engineer going to move to a mining world
when he has a very viable job back at New Avalon? Sure he may get contracted
out, but you aren't going to have 400 Chip fabrication specialist that are
also Miners.
Certain industries are going to be non existent on smaller colony worlds.
PERIOD. Eventually they will make it. But it will take time. One can extend
this sort of idea to certain states.
I can go to North Dakota and find lots of farmers. I won't find a factory that
fabricates chips. I won't likely find many people that
can even burn e-proms in their basement work shop either. If I wanted
to suddenly locate a business in North Dakota to make computers, I'm going to
have a hard time getting it set up. I won't have enough skilled workers for
that industry. I won't have any nearby contractors for parts or supplies I'll
need. I will be shipping harddrives, components, power supplies, CRTs,
connectors, memory and processors from out side of the country. Sure, I could
get cases fabricated there easy. But, I could set the same kind of factory up
in Silicon valley and be set for everything I need, there would be local
businesses with those fields already set up. Either as brokers
that bring it in from else where, or items that are made in-situ.
Granted, shipping is cheap, but, if it's so cheap, why aren't there computer
makers in North Dakota?
> 3) colony math. Not saying this is right, but think on it. Ever play
During WWII Austrialia and South Africa didn't have sufficient industrial base
to build many of the things being built in the United States. They didn't have
the ability to build anything beyond light armored vehicles. Austrailia did
have one Locomotive foundry as I recall and by the time the had finished with
their tank design, it'd already been surpassed by factory production in the US
and in the UK. Just ramping up production took long enough that the distance
issue
with shipping them there was easier than making them in-situ. They
eventually got things working, but the lack of industrial base for that
particular item was long in coming. Realize this was due to a wartime need
where there was an enemy just off the coast apparently ready to invade.
Austrailia wasn't a struggling colony. They weren't a failing colony. They
just didn't have the industry present to do that. South Africa eventually
built her own defense industry, but it took years and lots of really hard work
to do it. It wasn't a back yard project either.
> 4) Brian's point about armament levels in colonies. Let us say I end up
Are
> they likely to be heavily armed? Nope. Of course, pirates and such will
You are correct here. Likely there will be some planetary defense
force of some sort even so. Quakers/Amish will likely be just as
happy being a small settlement on a larger planet.
G'day,
> 3) colony math. Not saying this is right, but think on it. Ever play
That's pretty much the curve (give or take a few modifying "hiccups")
assumed by most population models - that's why the current population
models for Earth can give such radically different answers... are we at the
start, middle or end of the central (exponential growth) part of the curve...
Cheers
Just to point out, one of the major PC manufacturers in the US is in South
Dakota. Gateway computers is located in Souix City SD. Admittedly they are not
a mega corp like Dell (Texas) or IBM, but they are fairly big (this is in no
way a recommendation).
High tech corporations sometimes suffer some myopia with regards to new plant
locations. Only the really big ones (Intel, AMD, IBM, etc) look at
non-traditional alternatives. Which is why you'll find an Intel plant
in
Ireland. It would actually be advantageous for high-tech companies to
look to the midwest for manufacturing locations since the cost of labor (due
to lower cost of living) is a fraction of what it is on the coasts. As they
say "If you build it, they will come" (with regards to skilled workers).
The ones that aren't huge, and aren't on one of the coasts (speaking only of
the US here) are there because they started and grew there, ala Dell and
Gateway.
Just my observations.
Bill
Ryan Gill
<rmgill@mindspring.com> To:
gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Sent by: cc:
owner-gzg-l@lists.CSUA.Be Subject: Re:
colonial weapons (chip fabs and colony rkeley.EDU math)
01/29/02 06:54 PM
Please respond to gzg-l
I can go to North Dakota and find lots of farmers. I won't find a factory that
fabricates chips. I won't likely find many people that
can even burn e-proms in their basement work shop either. If I wanted
to suddenly locate a business in North Dakota to make computers, I'm going to
have a hard time getting it set up. I won't have enough skilled workers for
that industry. I won't have any nearby contractors for parts or supplies I'll
need. I will be shipping harddrives, components, power supplies, CRTs,
connectors, memory and processors from out side of the country. Sure, I could
get cases fabricated there easy. But, I could set the same kind of factory up
in Silicon valley and be set for everything I need, there would be local
businesses with those fields already set up. Either as brokers
that bring it in from else where, or items that are made in-situ.
Granted, shipping is cheap, but, if it's so cheap, why aren't there computer
makers in North Dakota?
> At 10:38 AM -0600 1/30/02, bbrush@unlnotes.unl.edu wrote:
Ok, perhaps my idea isn't quite so good. How about Gnome Alaska then...
;-P
> High tech corporations sometimes suffer some myopia with regards to new
I don't know. Apple has an assembly plant in Ireland as well. I suspect that a
number of technical companies have located in the Republic of Ireland
specifically due to the good labor force and close access to the European
Market. Apple's other big plant is in Singapore iirc.
> The ones that aren't huge, and aren't on one of the coasts (speaking
As probably the only lister living in North Dakota, I guess I'll have to reply
to this one though I don't see it as an insult, just a chance to further
educate others.
> Certain industries are going to be non existent on smaller colony
Fewer and fewer actually, they are all moving to the cities
> I won't find a
Even backwoods places have more than most people think. Check out Phoenix
International, located in Fargo: http://www.phoeintl.com/
"Phoenix International® is a leader in the design and manufacture of custom,
integrated electronic solutions for Original Equipment Manufacturers. Since
our inception in 1987, we have developed highly ruggedized electronic
components and systems for industries that rely on their equipment to function
under the most adverse conditionsÂindustries such as
on-highway,
agriculture, heavy construction, industrial control, material handling and
more."
Imation (3M) has a major factory and hour south of Fargo that made most of
their 3.5" computer disks along with magnetic tape and other storage media.
They recently expanded their production to include optical media such as
magneto-optical, CD-ROM, CD-RW and DVD.
Great Plains Software was just bought by Microsoft, and was large enough so
the CEO of Great Plains became a Senior VP of Microsoft.
There GEM Electric Car is built here, and they were recently bought by
DaimlerChrysler.
http://gemcar.com/
> I won't have enough skilled workers for that industry.
Phoenix International employs over 200 engineers alone and North Dakota State
University has set up a Research and Technology Park where labs and
equipment are shared between hi-tech companies like Phoenix
International. As result, NDSU has landed several Department of Defense
research grants.
> I won't have any nearby
Sure some places will be better located than others but many metropolitan
locations will still have to import some componants since the don't produce it
all localy.
> Granted, shipping is cheap, but, if it's so cheap, why aren't there
Well Gateway was mentioned and its not that far south of ND. Also while ND is
somewhat insulated from the rest of the world (the economic slowdown effecting
the rest of the US is barely being felt here) unemployment is very, very low
so some companies have decided not to locate here because the pool of
available workers is just too small.
Sure ND does not make everything but next time you eat some pasta or drink
some beer (in the US), there is probably an North Dakota connection since the
Durham and the Barley they were made from was probably grown here.
How this effects manufacturing on colonies, hmmmmm, let me
think......;-)