Cetaceans are people too! and some other odds n ends

3 posts ยท Nov 2 2001 to Nov 2 2001

From: Thomas Barclay <Thomas.Barclay@s...>

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 17:17:57 -0500

Subject: Cetaceans are people too! and some other odds n ends

Note, the OUDF is NOT the only power recognizing Dolphins as citizens.

I believe the Sovereignty of New Los Angeles does, as does the Turing Republic
(another AE Sov). (For different reasons I suspect). In fact, the Turing
Republic has gone so far as recognizing the rights of all
sentient beings (regardless of their format - carbon or silicon based,
or other).

--------------------------------------------------------

Also, on another note: Mr.Atkinson, I will not be signing for any packages
weighing in at 50 lbs....;)

---------------------------------------------------------

SFB : FT/FB
Shone in ship vs. ship: FT is distinctly poor in this role Bogged in fleet
battles: Does okay to very good in this role Gave many tactial options at all
levels: Gives more fleet tactic options than individual ship tactical options
Lots of overhead: Lesser overhead Requires an L.L.B. to play: Requires a pulse
to play
Errata!: A few fix-its, but pretty clean (as of FB)
Slow to play: Fast to play (for a given # of ships)

And for those who say FT has tactical complexity relating to manouvering ships
(deciding what range they should be at, what arc, etc) and by selecting
tactics to deal with enemy weapons, SG has all of that PLUS
dealing with terrain restrictions to movement and firing, plus off-board
weaponry, smoke, transfer of command, etc. The SG metaphor is a more rich one
with more options. Hence more tactics can come into play.

I never said FT was a bad game or you couldn't play a tactically complex
scenario in it. But it is easier to create tactical problems in SG that have
many solutions viable than it is in FT.

---------------------------------------------------------
Brian,

As far as doing a Scots offshoot... go for it!

Two points:

The list does not "restrict" anyone's potential. It just offers comment on
what has been done before. Since you don't necessarily have to integrate any
of the other offerings, your GZGverse may well not have
the done-to-death Celtic states.

Also, consider the population base you may well have to work with (I have a
theory that says with cheap stardrive and interstellar colony space available,
that fecundity rates especially in the colonies will go up again, a change
from current worldwide trends which may lead to
population stabilization or die-back). It is quite feasible for the NAC
with an estimated 2000 population of say 700 million to easily have a
population of 2 billion by 2183. If you're pessimistic, say a billion and a
half. Out of that, one could easily spare several hundred million
for splinter states. So if you limit yourself to 5-20 million (avg 10),
we can easily accommodate 30 NAC splinter states on that scale. This assumes
all the population comes from the NAC. And that still leaves the NAC well over
a billion taxpayers. This doesn't even really require a fecundity jump. If
that jump was to happen and there were no crunches that prevented growth, you
could conceivably see the NAC with a population of 10 billion. I don't think
it will be that high (me and
Beth have kicked this one around) but since it _could be_, then maybe
this excess population is siphoning off to make break away states that
encourage new colony members. If that's the case, then we can have
_racks_ of colonies without affecting the NACs scale terribly much.

So, at worst, we can support more offshoots than we have. At best, we can
support many many more offshoots than we have. And since they don't
necessarily coexist, the problem is even less significant.

Do what you enjoy and don't let the "seen it before" attitude some people have
colour your thinking. It is quite feasible that you could do a job better than
any done before. You could totally reinvent the idea.
So do what makes _you_ happy, which is the REAL spirit of the GZG game
universe.

Tomb.

From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@y...>

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 14:35:19 -0800 (PST)

Subject: Re: Cetaceans are people too! and some other odds n ends

> --- Tomb <kaladorn@fox.nstn.ca> wrote:

> I believe the Sovereignty of New Los Angeles does,

The NRE still doesn't go for Equal Rights for Muslims, much less other
species. However, it has been determined that anything with a passport issued
by a nation that is recognized by the NRE is a person with the legal
protections thereof. Which permits dolphins
or gene-altered chimpanzees to travel to New
Constantinople for whatever reason strikes their fancy. The lawyers are still
arguing over what would be the Imperial response to a request to emmigrate to
an NRE planet by non-humans.

Sentient AIs are still considered pro nullis, pro mortis, pro quadrupedis. And
AIs constructed in NRE territory must be programmed with enough overrides to
prevent them acting against the interests/wishes of
their owners. They are primarily used for supervision of the automated
factories which make up the majority of the Empire's industry.

The question of where this leaves sentient AIs with a passport has come up. It
has been mildly suggested that using human agents for business within Imperial
territory is probably a better idea.

I'm cheating my way around the population limits by presuming that Imperial
social structures have
replaced the slave/serf/peasant class with robotics.

> Also, on another note: Mr. Atkinson, I will not be
;)

It's a fruit basket, honest!

> Also, consider the population base you may well have

Frontier societies tend to value children far more highly than settled ones.

> So do what makes _you_ happy, which is the REAL

Amen.

From: Laserlight <laserlight@q...>

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 18:41:32 -0500

Subject: Re: Cetaceans are people too! and some other odds n ends

> Note, the OUDF is NOT the only power recognizing Dolphins as

True. I don't think the dolphins aver bother to vote, though.