It looks like the autonomous fighter debate (which, funny enough, was only a
side comment on Jon's background) has ground to a halt. It was quite
interesting and very informative.
For the record, I still believe that we'll see an autonomous atmospheric
fighter plane before the middle of the next century and that manned fighters
in space will be impossible. I haven't been
convinced with the pro-human side of the argument (albeit the
majority). I still think that the ability to sustain high Gs, faster reaction
time, and less mass will win out.
I also doubt very much if my own pro-machine arguments have swayed
anyone. And, to be honest, I'm actually quite happy with this. You see, I've
often wanted to write stories with humans piloting fighters (since stories
about people are the most interesting of all), but in the back of my mind I've
had this gnawing sense that it was all rather impossible and that most readers
simply wouldn't buy the concept. It was actually rather heartening to see
people come to the defence of humanity so readily.
So, in closing, I will assume that humans (and aliens; let's say
"biologicals") have an inherent advantage over machines until such time as
Jon's universe invents AIs (if ever). If an explanation is needed, what was
mentioned on this group about humans being innovative, creative, and
unpredictable will suffice. I STILL debate the bit about humans being
unpredictable, but then you probably knew
I'd say that. :-)
> ----------
Speaking of autonomous fighters... anyone read "Ender's Game" by Orson Scott
Card? That had a pretty neat twist on the whole fighter philosophy
(instantaneous
communication with fighters at the alien home-world sorta thing), I just
don't remember if they were remotely piloted or human piloted. I believe
they were remotely-piloted (that was the point.. having children control
them (better reflexes) all the while thinking they were playing a game..
).
Instantaneous communication (another thread) puts a whole new twist on the
space combat arena. Then it becomes a war of attrition and technology fought
from systems (galaxies?) away. Who can build the most RPF's with the best AI.
Tactics and good 'ol game play are right out the window. The modern equivelant
would be the Tomahawk Missile.
I think that it is not too far fecthed to have one or the other technology in
a "world", but together they cause huge gameplay gaps, as well as plausability
issues.
> It looks like the autonomous fighter debate (which, funny enough, was
Just wanted to get my say-so in there before the thread went away...
Joe
Hey Allan,
AS a footnote, Fred Saberhagen during his Beserker series of books, wrote a
short story about computer pilots. The Beserkers were a "machine" enemy out to
destry all life in the Universe. This captured programmer had created AI
constructs of a number of hsitories greatest fighter pilots. He had fooled his
beserker captors into letting him put these AI constructs into some fighter
which then proceeded to kil all the beserker fighters. It was a neat story.
> . wrote:
> >----------
IIRC, the fleet was human controlled, and "brillant" children actually ran it.
The first part of the book covered how Ender was singled out as the best
tactician available. The other part had him "playing" wargames. At the end
they told him that he was really commanding the human fleet against the
"bugs". Way Cool! 8D
> Instantaneous communication (another thread) puts a whole new twist on
> ----------
Haven't read this personally, but it made me think of a tiny throwaway line
in one of my all-time favourite SF novels - M.John Harrison's "The
Centauri Device". A very, very "nasty" book in places, with some wonderful
ideas and very evocative writing. Look it out if you haven't read it. The
passage in question was that the Government "bad guys" used kids of ten or so,
hyped on combat drugs, to pilot their low-orbit interceptors.
> At 02:32 2/17/98, Ground Zero Games wrote:
I'm assuming the name Centauri in this case has nothing to do with B5? Is such
a book available stateside?
There was also a choice bit of satire by Isaac Asimov, called 'The Feeling Of
Power' I think, in which humans had totally forgotten how to manually do even
the simplest math, relying totally on computers. As such, all weapons of war
were unpiloted and totally predictable, leading to a stalemate. A professor
points out that a properly trained man can do calculations in his head, and
the military promptly straps live suicide pilots onto their bombs, as humans
would be less predictable.