Carrier and fighter questions

3 posts ยท Dec 1 1997 to Dec 2 1997

From: mehawk@c... (Michael Sandy)

Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 08:57:36 -0800

Subject: Carrier and fighter questions

Fighter Questions:

If a Carrier launches a heavy interceptor squadron and
a torpedo-fighter squadron at the same time and flies
them to the same target, who determines which squadron
is targetted by PDAFs, ADAFs, C-Beams and other fighters?

Can a fighter group within range of several frigates target more than one of
them? Obviously each of their targets would get to use their point defense
against the whole fighter group, but splitting up a torpedo squadron to attack
several low mass frigates is better than wasting half their torpedos!

I understand that some people play without the restriction of fighters to
Capital ships. Having done some of the numbers I'd like to weigh in against
doing away with the restriction. Especially doing away with the restriction
for Heavy Fighters! As a historical note, in WWII the smaller carriers were
often armed with less powerful planes because the best fighters required
longer runways. I don't know what sorts of extra logistical requirements the
more expensive fighters need, but limiting them to Capital ships is important.

As I understand how fighters work, they get half their movement the turn they
are launched, but they can attack that very turn.

Consider: the Swarm Carrier Mass 18 move 8

systems FCS Needle Beam PDAF
fast-torpedo fighter squadron (or other fighter squadron)

A fighter group attacks targets within 6", right? So the Swarm could hit a
target 15" away from the end of its movement.

Against no point defense this attack would do an average of 14 points of
damage.

This is more damage than submunitions do at 12". 9 submunitions at 12" would
do an average of 12 points. And unlike submunition equipped ships, the Swarms
can do something after their first attack, namely refuel and rearm, as well as
firing their Needle.

Fleets would need to seriously up their anti-fighter defenses!

There is of course the question of whether the Swarms would survive long
enough to launch their fighters, but with Thrust 8 they should only suffer one
volley of A batteries at extreme range before they can launch.

At long range it would take 6 A Batteries to inflict a threshold check on a
Swarm, (or any escort), barring a superior targetting system, and 14 to kill
one. At closer range a lot depends on your initiative system, but launch and
fighter movement takes place before combat.

Fighters may get left behind some high speed combats, but there isn't much
dodging a point blank launch.

As for how I got on this topic, I was trying to design an
in-the-thick of it Carrier which would rearm its fighters
during combat. Unfortunately, the larger Carriers are slow and have launcher
congestion. So I started looking at Cruisers and Escorts.

Anyone have any ideas on how long it takes to reload and rearm fighters? Does
it make a difference what the mass of the Carrier is?

Swarm II (Cruiser type Carrier)

Mass 36 move 8 systems FCS FCS shield shield fighter squadron C Beam PCS C
Beam PCS PDAF PDAF 2 Mass Cargo Space for extra munitions for fighters

I suppose that with enough extra cargo space the Swarm II
could rearm torpedo fighters, interceptors, attack-fighters,
basically whichever fighter squadron happened to be near it. You could have 3
Swarms launching 3 different types of fighters, but any squadron could rearm
at any Swarm. Considering that the torpedo fighters would need to rearm more
quickly this versatility could be important! And on the not too infrequent
occurences that a launch bay or a Swarm cruiser was destroyed, the extra cargo
area would mean that they could still recover the fighters without blocking
the launch bay.

By having in-the-thick-of-it Carriers to recover and rearm
fighters, a fleet would have the option of keeping its fleet Carriers further
back, not to mention spending less on defenses and escorts for those Carriers.

I'd like to point out that in terms of both cost and mass, Fleet Carriers are
going to be more efficient in terms of total fighter weight. However, the
Swarms should have an advantage in terms of launching and recovering fighters.
A non-ftl version of the Swarm could afford better anti-fighter
defenses, more cargo area and some offensive power of its own. Because of the
amount of mass devoted to defense, a
non-ftl version of the Swarm would have a great advantage.

Swarm II non-ftl version
Mass 36 move 8 systems
shield-3 (I forget if you can actually put Shield-3 on a Cruiser)
fighter squadron 3 Mass Cargo space A Beam PCS
C-Beam PCS
ADAF PDAF PDAF

Unless your enemy has Pulse-torpedos or submunitions in
large quantities, this Cruiser is going to be tough to kill.

From: Tony Francis <tony.francis@k...>

Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 19:40:41 +0000

Subject: Re: Carrier and fighter questions

> I understand that some people play without the restriction
In WWII yes, because few carriers had catapults to get the aircraft up to
flight speeds. Don't forget that many battleships and merchant vessels carried
aircraft on catapults (in the case of BBs these were perched on top of the
after turrets) so deck length wasn't an issue.
Look at modern US Navy carriers - the catapults only run roughly half
the length of the deck, the rest of the space is used as a
marshalling area. With the advent of VTOL / STOVL aircraft this
argument is even less valid.

> As I understand how fighters work, they get half their
Maybe the answer is to restrict the speed on launch of the fighters. They get
half their move only if launched from capital sized vessels
which have sufficient catapults / linear accelerators (insert your
own technology here). Otherwise they're assumed to be launched in a similar
fashion to a VTOL aircraft or helicopter leaving a modern frigate or
destroyer, and in the first turn they can only be (say) 1" in front of the
parent vessel. Certainly you should restrict these small carriers to launching
one group per turn.

> I suppose that with enough extra cargo space the Swarm II
Much of the logistics space on a carrier would be taken up with
model-specific spare parts (engines, wings, electronic modules etc)
which we could assume aren't interchangeable. Realistically, especially over a
campaign of any length, a carrier could on service
/ re-arm a model of fighter that it was equipped with and therefore
equipped to handle. Any fighter could expect to be recovered by any
carrier, but IMO having any carrier being able to recover, re-arm,
refuel, repair and relaunch any fighter would be stretching things a little
too far, especially if you're talking about escort sized vessels.

I'm all for sub-capital sized carriers. In smallish campaign games
where engagements are down to half-a-dozen ships per side they are
the only way you can afford to put fighters in every tak force.

From: Brian Bell <bkb@b...>

Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 18:21:59 -0800

Subject: Re: Carrier and fighter questions

> who determines which squadron
The defender decides if he will use *DAF fire against a fighter group or save
it for use against another group (if multiple groups are attacking).

> Can a fighter group within range of several frigates target
No. One target per fighter group. But you do not need to fire all of the
torpedo fighters on one turn.

> A fighter group attacks targets within 6", right? So the
A fighter group can attack a target upto 12" away from thier point of launch
(6" movement, 6" range).

> Anyone have any ideas on how long it takes to reload and
We usually state that it takes 3 rounds to rearm and refuel a fighter group
after it is recovered.

> Does it make a difference what the mass
No. Does it make a difference how big an airport is when refueling a plane?
What matters is the number of ground crew (it is assumed that
there are enough to handle this) and the number of runways. In FT/MT you
are limited to launching 1 fighter group per round (2 if a carrier) and
recovering 1 fighter group per round (FT page 16). This means that a Carrier
with 2 figher groups can launch both in the same turn. Recover one of them on
a subsequent turn. Recover the other on the next turn
(whilethe first is being refueled/rearmed). Wait while both are being
refueled. Launch the first group (while the 2nd is being
refueled/rearmed) then launch the 2nd group again. If a Carrier has more
than 4 fighter groups and the fighter groups run out of run out of endurance
at the SAME time, one will be left outside after exceeding its endurance and
fuel and be effectivly lost (p. 11 MT)