> Ken Winland Wrote:
Yup. Most police snipers engage targets at 40m, rather than the
300+m that military snipers train for. This is why in the last 5
years, police snipers have been going to dedicated firing schools that meet
their needs, rather than training with the military.
** Same reason they can get away with using rifles like the German G3 as a
'sniper' weapon. Their engagement ranges make the option
feasible. They don't need a $7K Steyr SSG-II. :)
I have personally known police in Metro-Dade and Valousia
Counties who have been involved in firefights. Most less than 8 meters, with
LOTS of shots exchanged. With fewer hits. And these were good shooters. As
earlier posted in this thread, manuevering targets who fire back make life
difficult. Also a big component is nerves and adrenaline.
** I'd agree here that how calm you are has more to do with how you shoot.
Supposedly Doc Halliday was incredibly calm and that was what made him a
deadly gunfighter, not lightning speed. A trooper who is (if you could be)
blase about being shot at is probably a better shot with his rifle than a
range champion who doesn't get shot at much and is all excited about the
flying lead.
> On 15 Jul 99, at 10:44, Thomas Barclay wrote:
It's not a new idea. There is a word for it in Japanese martial arts.
Obviously I can't write it out but phonetically it's something like 'zanjin'.
That being the art of having a clear mind in a fight.
In FMA terms this is built into the troop quality rating surely?
TTFN
Jon
In a message dated 7/15/99 9:46:28 AM EST, Thomas.Barclay@sofkin.ca
writes:
<<
** I'd agree here that how calm you are has more to do with how you shoot.
Supposedly Doc Halliday was incredibly calm and that was what made him a
deadly gunfighter, not lightning speed. A trooper who is (if you could be)
blase about being shot at is probably a better shot with his rifle than a
range champion who doesn't get shot at much and is all excited about the
flying lead.
> [quoted text omitted]
Which brings to mind two of my favorite westerns
"Day of the Gun" James Garner as Wyatt Earp and Jason Robards as Holliday
And "Sunset" with James Garner reprising as a 60+ Wyatt and Bruce Willis
as
Tom Mixd - great movie avilable on video tape. Here the gunfighter is
portrayed as standing calmly in gunfire white picking his shots. Most
gunfighters decried speed, saying it wasted your opportunities.
> Ken Winland Wrote:
BTW as I'm sure you know, (just to expand on the point w/ some detail)
police snipers have a different clientel (sp?) and are held to a different
standard to some extent than military snipers. Police snipers have to make
relatively VERY short range shots but they have no margin for error. (i.e. an
HRT sniper has to make a shot at 70 yards on a guy holding a knife to someone.
He only has a face to aim at). A military
sniper is normally firing on targets at longer ranges (300-800M)
man-sized targets with no friendly fire concerns and also the
opportunity for multiple rounds to get the target.)
The same goes for pistol shooting. Combat pistol shooting, as we do it for
real life close range situations, bears little resemblance to whatever people
here on the list may be doing on the range. (BTW for those that don't know,
until recently I was running a SF team specializing in Close Quater Battle)
For us, we dedicated very little trigger time training for shots over 7
meters. (Even though the standard army pistol qual course is fired at like
25m, in a standard day of pistol firing we might do one or two line drills at
25m and the other 20 at 15 and (mostly) under to include 3m and some actually
starting out touching the target! (part of weapons retention drills). On a
standard two day
train-up, (say for instance before a bodyguard job), day one will be
just pistol work, day two will be just M4 (rifle) work at the exact same
ranges.
In all of these drills there's it little aiming beyond "front sight, front
sight, by god, front sight" (our mantra). Everything is about engaging the
target quickly "instinctive firing". AS a illustration, when Delta was first
put together, (back in late seventies), the army was trying everything to
screw them out of existance, and in one episode, a bunch delta operators
actually flunked or did very poorly at the standard army pistol course, though
each of them could put two rounds intpo someones face at room distance with
less than a secons acquisition time. Two different skill sets (which obvioulsy
can reside in the same body)
> Thomas Barclay wrote:
> ** I'd agree here that how calm you are has more to do with how you
And we have one last saying: Slow is smooth, smooth is fast....
L:os <grin>