Here's some more input/correction on all this.
Kataphractos is an alternate name for Klibanophoros, the lesser armoured
cavalry were called Cavallaroi. The Pelstatoi term was probably used for
skirmishers and not line infantry. Akritai were the thematic troops,Akritai
meant only that they were the border thematics and not in the interior. In
equipment and organization they would have been the same as the other
thematics which means they would have been infantry as well as cavalry so this
might affect your unit names.
As for the Holy Roman Empire there is a famous saying (can't remember who said
it) "The Holy Roman Empire was neither holy nor Roman." The Byzantines called
themselves Romans until the end although they also increasingly called
themselves Hellenes to distinguish themselves from the "Latins". As far as the
Byzantines were concerned the Basileus was the direct descendent of Rome's
Emperors and the German Emperors were
grudingly acknowledged as emperors for political/military pressure
reasons, the same as the Bulgars. As for not calling them the Roman Empire
because they no longer held Rome...the western half of the empire moved the
capital to Ravenna long before their fall and still called themselves Romans.
David Best
> ----------
> You wrote:
> used for skirmishers and not line infantry. Akritai were the thematic
Akritai is going to be the name for full-time troops assigned to
newly-settled planets in order to provide defense until the planet's
thematic troops get on-line. Remember, I'm translating FT/DS
background into Roman terms, not the other way around.
> As for the Holy Roman Empire there is a famous saying (can't remember
Nor much of an Empire, later on. Seriously, since Donation was a
fraud, Pope doesn't have _any_legal_secular_authority_, and can't piss
in a pot without asking the Emperor's permission. Of course, since the office
of Emperor lapsed in 1453, that's no longer relevant. Further
conflict on this issue should be taken to e-mail before we start crying
anathema on each other.
John, your'e gonna hate me for this, What I was thinking was that all the
Heavy armour would be Klibanophoros. Anything left over that had armoured
vehciles would then be Kataphractoi. For the Trapezitoi I had in mind VTOL
units that scout ahead of and support the main force. So far so good. For the
infantry I think Peltastoi is still valid but that it would refer to the line
infantry and Skutatoi would then be any Powered Armour units. The Peltastoi
could then be just Peltastoi on foot, or Peltastoi Kataphractos if in APCs
(Mechanized Infantry). Pisloi would definantely be mobile artillery, Pisloi
Kataphractos being armoured SP guns. That leaves the Akritoi. I'll have
another think. Anyway do send your background when your done now that I've
ruined it:) For those who hate history you really are missing out on some
great background material here.
Tony. (he who has mucked up my ideas) twilko@ozemail.com.au
> At 21:27 29/04/98 -0500, you wrote:
> be a bit anachronistic, regardless of What'shername (Alexai's niece)'s
No. There were Kataphractoi/Klibanophoroi earlier than Nikephoros
(early 10th cent.). Also 10th century manuals refer to Kavallaroi (I believe
but I will have to look it up). Anyway the Kataphractoi were the heavy heavy
cavalry. The Romans also used the name for ships (new ship types,hint hint) to
show that rowers were covered with decking (armour) rather than being exposed
like on the triers.As for the peltasts when Anna Comnena talks about them she
seems to describe skirmishing and is using the standard Byzantine habit of
archaic terms.
I agree we can take this offline and it is good see someone interested in the
topic. I can remember a few years back driving from Toronto to a conference in
Michigan (USA). At the border the inspector asked me the reason for my visit.
When I answered "I'm attending a Byzantine Studies Conference" he surprised me
by replying "Oh a Medieavalist! Go ahead."
David Best
> ----------
They
> were meant to be the revival of the old Roman Cataphractoi, ie Heavily
> Kataphractos is an alternate name for Klibanophoros, the lesser
<snip>
> David Best
No! Kataphractos is any cavalry, but light skirmishing cavalry, which was all
(technically) meant to have armour. Kavallaroi is a term used from 12th
century on. The Klibanophoros were created by Nikephoros II about 965. They
were meant to be the revival of the old Roman Cataphractoi, ie Heavily
armoured men riding heavily armoured horses. The fact that Nikephoros used a
name that in old Persian refered to a somewhat lighter cavarly type (man with
breastplate and helmet, horse only partial armour at best) is rather ironic.
As for the Peltastoi it is rather hard to work out what they were actually
doing. Traditionally they have been thought of as light infantry but no
military manual of the time deals with them. It is quite possible that they
were used as line infantry but equipped with javelins as they had no archers
in their units as the Skutatoi did. To me, as contemporaries were complaining
about how few people practiced archery (Brits will understand), this is the
most likely explaination.:) It's nice to know that someone out there has the
same interest in history but I think we'd better go to private mail.
> At 10:01 30/04/98 -0500, you wrote:
> For starters:
Ourghos Lance Corpral Tetrarchos Corpral Pentarchos Sargent Dekarchos Sargent
Major, Staff Sargent.... Lochaghos Warrant Officer Illarch Lieutenat
Kentarchos Captain Hekatonarchos Major Komes Brigadier Domestikos Lieutenat
General or just General Strategos General or Field Marshal
Any Tagmata will be your regular troops well equiped and highly trained but
not very many of them (damn few actually). Thematic troops will be either well
equiped like the Tagmata but not have the training or motivation, or they will
be foot sloggers (perhaps unarmoured transport) with towed guns and no tanks.
If I get any more ideas I'll send private email. Anyone on this that's
interested will just have to ask.