Body Armor and equipment weight

> Los wrote:
the wrong way works as well as a ton of body armor in stopping > > trouble.

I don't know about actual troops, but I have a friend in Michigan who has been
a cop for five years, now, and he has worn his body armor
(about 15-20 lbs worth, I think) every day of his career.

> Los wrote:
the wrong way works as well as a ton of body armor in stopping > > trouble.
> I don't know about actual troops, but I have a friend in Michigan who

Ah, but think of the difference (I know a lot of RCMP members as part of my
job)

Police Officer: 1. Backup (most of the time) at hand, including pickup 2. Sits
for a lot of the time (paperwork, in car, on break) 3. Travels in a vehicle 4.
Wears BA to stop pistol rounds, shotguns 5. Often have Canine units for
entering questionable areas at night or that are 'close' 6. Uses a vehicle to
hump gear other than flashlight, baton, sidearm, cuffs, notepad and ammo 7.
isn't expected to enter protracted firefight (It's a bad idea, and
that is what ERT/SWAT teams are for if need be)

The important points are two and three.

Soldier (Regular) 1. May not have backup at hand 2. Has to hump his own gear
around a lot of the time (if he's lucky he has a vehicle) 3. Wears BA
primarily to stop fragmentation and concussion damage, and rounds at long
range or of low power. Many rounds will chew right through BA, and some do
more damage to people in BA because it slow the round and mushrooms it 4.
Carries ammo, web gear, long arm, possibly sidearm, knife (or several), water,
mission specific gear (AA, demo, med, EW, comms,
GPS, designator), and if moving on foot for a distance - a big ass
pack with sleeping bag, bug net, a tarp, MRE/Food (not exactly the
same...), more ammo, mines, ammo for the support weapon, grenades,
etc. You get the idea - he carries a lot more than a cop.
5. May be in a protracted firefight without resupply, and fight may be of much
greater intensity 6. Will have to operate in whatever terrain he is in

So the soldier does more movement on foot, for longer periods (I've been on ex
where we moved for more than a day with only short breaks), carrying way more
gear potentially, ready for much more violent and high volume fights, in a
much higher threat environment, and with the need to carry more food and such.

Most BA is heavy (esp if you have steel/ceramic inserts),
questionable against most modern long arm or support weapon rounds -
mostly only useful at long range or versus arty or grenade fragments (another
reason why SF guys tend to dodge it is I'm sure they don't expect to be Arty'd
as much as your average ground pounder), restricts mobility, isn't incredibly
comfortable, and if you've ever put on a brain bucket, you'd realize they cut
your hearing and sight which really is awful when you're doing small unit
tactical movement esp if you are on point!

For line troops, the benefits of BA often outweigh the downside (they tend to
occupy set positions or execute short duration patrols, so the weight vs
protection trade is worth it for them) but for anyone doing Long Range Recce,
behind the lines ops, or who has a rack of other weight to carry, it just
isn't that desirable. Heck, I know a lot of infanteers who'd gladly turf their
helmets the minute they get in the bush (trading the hearing and sight for the
protection).

Tom.

/************************************************

Well you gotta realize that police body armor is an undergarment vest,
designed to stop handgun slugs. It's much more confortable and lighter, plus
cops usually sit around eating donuts all day (kidding) and don't really have
to hump 20 klicks to the target first. The Ranger body armor we ahve with the
kevlar sternum protector will stop a 7.62mm MG slug. nut it's pretty hefty,
and getting your web harness or ruck over it, you'll be dead of exhasution in
ten minutes.

Los

> Jonathan Jarrard wrote:

> Los wrote:

> Thomas Barclay wrote:

I knew I'd probably get clobbered for my message, but I wanted to hear the
analysis. Thanks.:)

(BTW  Just for the record, my friend is scarcely the eat donuts/get fat
type. He seems to spend a lot of his time running down perps through peoples'
back yards on foot.)

> ----------
Even >when > we were busting up riots and mobs where there was four of us >and
500
> of them. Stupid when you thing back on it, but somethimes

The Australian Army BA is similar the the US Marine/Regular Army style.
Quite heavy, fairly inflexible torso sheath and shoulder pads (not very
stylish this season). Not popular with a lot of troopies, unless they are in
high risk situations where they are likely to be engaged at close range eg
MOUT. I think Los already mentioned the police versions are more an under
garment style, over here a lot of the police will don the BA only in response
at an incident site as it does slow them down and
has an unfavourable psychological image/effect on the public.

As the Australian Army adopts a more vehicle mobile role we expect to see the
use of BA to increase exactly because the troops will not have to carry the
burden on foot all the time on operations. Australia's climate has a lot to
play given the high temperatures and risk of heat illness.

As we advance in technology we should expect that the materials used will
reduce in weight as they improve ballistic protection. Look at the guchi clam
shell armour in ALIENS; whilst rigid it did not appear to significantly reduce
agility due to its weight (okay so it was only fibreglass or plastic for the
movie!).

Funnily enough, the weight of an infantry personal weapon doesn't seem to have
decreased significantly in 80 or so years! The.303 of WWI
weighed approx 10 1/2 lbs; the F88 Austeyr is only a touch under that,
at around 9 lb and the M16 around 8 lb (3.7 kg?). We still see the infantry
soldier loaded to his capacity with extra weight regardless of the lightness
of kit!

Give a soldier a bigger ruck and he'll just put more in it!

> Glover, Owen wrote:

> Give a soldier a bigger ruck and he'll just put more in it!

Or what we say. Make everything high speed and light weight, so we can shove
more gadgets into our ruck!'