Battleships and Merchants

G'Day

For those interested HMS Victory, is still commissioned and is in fact the
oldest commissioned warship in the world.

http://www.hms-victory.com/

Cheers

In a concession to what must have been a flood of questions, they have
modelling info on the site and arrange special tours.

> Derek Fulton wrote:

> G'Day

> the oldest commissioned warship in the world.

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G'day,

> Good enough against unarmed merchantmen, but nobody would

Probably not, but we were talking about co-opting merchant ships and
arming them to be pirates weren't we? Or has my prolonged house cleaning
absence missed a topic change? Sorry if I've missed it and got muddled.

Cheers

From: "K.H.Ranitzsch" <KH.Ranitzsch@t-online.de>

> As late as WWII, the Germans fielded converted civilian vessels in

I've heard toasts to the Graf Von Lueckner drunk in Naval Messes here in
Australia. There's a bit of a love-hate relationship. Certainly GvL
caused more problems for the RAN than any other individual. But IMHO he's the
most outstanding naval commander of the 20th century, a worthy opponent.

> Even more trivia: My grandfather was aboard the "Kaiser Wilhelm der

Glad he survived intact.

The UK in both WW1 and WW2 converted many of the smaller liners into Armed
Merchant Cruisers (Bewaffenethaendelskruizer?) - to act as escorts and
as independant patrol ships.

IMHO the most interesting examples were the (German) Cap Trafalgar
http://www.deutsche-passagierschiffe.de/Schiffsbilder/trafalgar_seite.JP
G with 3 short funnels

and the (British) Carmania.
http://www.greatships.net/scans/PC-CA16.jpg
with 2 tall funnels, painted red with black tops.

They met: http://www.military-prints.com/images/wy8.jpg

And the ship with 2 tall red funnels was sunk:
http://www.military-prints.com/images/wy9.jpg

But see:
http://www.greatships.net/scans/PC-CA77.jpg

> At 06:46 14/01/02 +0100, Karl wrote:

G'Day

<interesting information about German naval auxiliaries snipped>

> Good enough against unarmed merchantmen, but nobody would confuse them

Against a Battleship? may be not (I believe it was the French who provided
ships of the line in the Revolutionary War):) But against a warship of
comparable size (frigate)? Well that depends on the crews and their captains.
That's because once refitted there would be little difference,

both ships would have wooden hulls and a comparable number of guns.

I know I already mentioned this, but once armour plate, exploding shells

and steam propulsion came on the scene, then that's when the design of men of
war really became specialized when compared to their merchant cousins. Even
though these new technologies greatly improved the capabilities of warships,
they required much more of the ships carrying them (and that's

certainly one reason why armed merchant cruisers didn't do well against their
thoroughbred naval cousins).

Cheers

"Simpson, Colin The Ship that Hunted Itself Stein and Day, 1977. German Cap
Trafalgar and British Carmania, similar passenger liners, were converted into
armed merchant cruisers at the start of the War. They masqueraded as each
other, and fought: Carmania sank Cap Trafalgar.
"

My local library had a copy of this book. It was a very enjoyable read and I
would recommend it.

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