Bad Gen Con News.

Hey All:

Well we knew in our heart of hearts that this was going to happen:

http://www.onwis.com/bym/news/nov99/gencon20111999.asp

        Thanks a lot WoTC! :-(

What a poor decision! According to the artical, all they had to do was move it
one weekend, or two, either way...

Gads.

Donald Hosford

Ya know...Indianapolis is alot closer to me than Milwaukee...still a bit of a
drive tho'.

> "Mark A. Siefert" wrote:

> Hey All:

> Donald Hosford wrote:

> What a poor decision! According to the artical, all they had to do

You know, this is EXACTLY how rumors start. The article stated:

"Others said the perceived problems with Milwaukee might, in reality, be a
function of poor business decisions by Wizards of the Coast. For instance, if
lack of downtown hotel rooms was a problem, why schedule Gen Con on the same
weekend as the Wisconsin State Fair?"

The authors don't even cite an unnamed source, but use the term "others." In
addition, they are careful to use the term "might." It also appears that this
problem is not confined to a particular weekend in August as the article also
states that GenCon is not the only major convention experience problems with
Milwaukee. The article stated:

"It was the second major convention to pull out of Milwaukee recently. In
August, the International Association of Chiefs of Police withdrew from a
commitment to hold its 2001 convention in Milwaukee. It cited inadequate space
at the Midwest Express Center."

Finally, it doesn't seem that a schedule change would solve the problem that
was stated by WOTC. The article stated:

"In notifying convention officials here of the decision to move to
Indianapolis, Wizards of the Coast said that the lack of hotel rooms
'immediately adjacent to the facility' was their greatest concern."

No matter when you schedule the event, more hotel rooms will not appear
"immediately adjacent to the facility." The statement does not mention total
hotel rooms in the city, which would have to consider the State Fair, but
rather those rooms which are within a short walking distance to the facility.

-Mike

> Thanks a lot WoTC! :-(

I disagree. GenCon has, in recent years, outgrown the Milwaukee Convention
Center. All you have to do is look at where the miniature events have been for
the last few years.

Indianapolis will allow us to regain our place beside the rest, as opposed to
being relegated to the boondocks.

This means more and better press for miniature games, which have the best
visual impact anyway.

Thanx WoTC :-)

The new convention center is still not conplete, but I would think by 2003 the
expanded areas should be available. Placement of the miniatures area for the
last two years has not been pleasant. The addition of the "noisy" bunch of
RPG'ers in the same hall was really annoying.

If the miniatures area was moved close to the main hall especially the
exhibits, it would be well received. I think the placement made a lot of us
feel like miniatures gaming is not as welcome as other events. Wonder if
this was part of the reason why Sci-Fi Supply didn't show up.

I do remember having fun trying to get a room the first year I attended.

Now I always pre-register very early!  You would think someone might
spring up a new hotel or two.

Mike

Michael Miserendino Senior Software Engineer Lincoln Re mtmiserendino@lnc.com

> owner-gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU at internet 11/23/99 10:42AM >>>

I disagree. GenCon has, in recent years, outgrown the Milwaukee Convention
Center. All you have to do is look at where the miniature events have been for
the last few years.

Indianapolis will allow us to regain our place beside the rest, as opposed to
being relegated to the boondocks.

This means more and better press for miniature games, which have the best
visual impact anyway.

Thanx WoTC :-)

Schoon

> On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, Sean Bayan Schoonmaker wrote:

> > Thanks a lot WoTC! :-(

Ah, but they are process of expanding on the convention center to double it's
size. (Or was all that construction going on next door just a figment of my
diseased imagination?) The construction was scheduled to be finished before
Gen Con started.

Later,

No matter if it's held in Milwaukee or Indianapolis, it doesn't make much
difference to those of us on any of the three coasts. For us it's just as bad.
When I lived on the East coast it was very long drive, or expensive

flight. Now that I live on the Gulf coast, it's as far or further. So it's
still local cons for me...

John

Indianapolis is a great city for conventions and it has a greatly revitalized
downtown area. I've been to several convention events in that city. I cannot
compare it to Milwaukee however.

Indianapolis is more central for air travel. Cincinnati would be better with
the Delta hub, but I think the Indy convention facilities are superior.

It's also my own stomping grounds with my in-laws about 30 minutes
from downtown and my mother about an hour away. I may actually make it to a
GenCon if it's part of a family trip in 2003.

Jon

[quoted original message omitted]

> On Wed, Nov 24, 1999 at 09:15:13AM -0500, Davis, Jonathan E (CRD) wrote:

GenCon in Cincinnati would be... surreal. I work just a few blocks from the
convention center.

Count me as happy GenCon's moving to Indianapolis; with Origins in Columbus
for at least the next few years, this means I may have a chance to get to some
conventions.

On Tue, 23 Nov 1999 11:26:00 -0500, Michael T Miserendino
> <MTMiserendino@lnc.com> wrote:

> The new convention center is still not conplete, but I would think by

The person who posted the move to Indy in the rec.games.frp.misc group posted
the rumour of the move months ago. He mentioned that even with the expansion,
GenCon still wouldn't be able to fit into one centre in Milwaukee. I'm not
sure I agree with him, but when you look at the area used in the arena, Bruce
Hall, and Labyrinth it is possible that the expansion might not be big enough.

However, the problem is nearby hotel space. That's ALWAYS been a problem. I've
heard people complaining for years about where they are stuck if they don't
get one of the few good hotels right downtown.

> If the miniatures area was moved close to the main hall especially the

I talked to the guy running the miniatures hall this year. I showed up just as
someone was asking about historical games. The guy had signed up for all the
historical minis games he could get, but they were few and far between.
Interestingly, the guy said that "Origins is the big historical convention".
Both me and the other guy almost simultaneously said, "No, Historicon is!" but
since Historicon isn't a WOTC event, he had never really heard of it!

But he did make an interesting point, a minute later. There is a perception
that GenCon isn't a historical miniatures con. The reasons for this are
myriad, but it comes down to a vicious spiral. People don't see it as a
historical con, so people don't go to it for historical minis. People don't
run historical minis games, so there are fewer historical games, fueling the
feeling that it isn't a historical con.

For this year, I'd like to run a historical Stargrunt game. It would be good
to run my Full Steam rules, too, but I don't know if they would be ready. The
only way to reverse the "not a historical con" feel to GenCon, though, is to
run more historical scenarios.

> I do remember having fun trying to get a room the first year I

I guess Milwaukee doesn't have the traffic for it. A hotel can't survive on
one good week a year.

I will miss Milwaukee. It's got great architecture, and I do like the city!
But as I mention elsewhere, Indianapolis is 3 hours closer to home by car.
Considering the mess that was this year's organization, I was considering
giving up on GenCon in favour of Origins in 2001 anyway.

> owner-gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU at internet 11/25/99 11:58PM >>>

> Bruce

I would disagree with him as well. The undeveloped lot is quite large.

> However, the problem is nearby hotel space. That's ALWAYS been a
I've
> heard people complaining for years about where they are stuck if they

The first year it was the same for me. I've registered early every other year
and had good hotel locations with the exception of 1998 when WoTC lost our
hotel reservations.

> But he did make an interesting point, a minute later. There is a

This is odd to me as GenCon has by far had the largest variety of games I have
ever seen at a con. I wouldn't consider it a historial mins con either, but a
chance to try about everything.

> I do remember having fun trying to get a room the first year I

> up a new hotel or two.

> I guess Milwaukee doesn't have the traffic for it. A hotel can't

There are other cons\large events in the town as well such as the Harley

Davidson get together. I would think GenCon is not their only income.

Mike