> Laserlight wrote:
> The cost of a K gun doesn't increase the same way as beams, but
In Cinematic or vector?
A) the only ship in either FB, except the SV, with T8 is the ESU Scout
B) the expected damage increases much faster with a K-gun (up to class
6, tapers off for +) than with a standard battery. Including re-rolls,
a beam battery die rolled against an unscreened ship tends asymtotically
toward 0.800 points per die rolled in the initial roll (counting rerolls
as adding points to the original die that spawned them). Note that the B5
(m16) is in between the K6 (m14) and K7 (m17) in mass, and is equal to 4x
Pulse Torpedoes. This table shows the statistical average damage done by
firing the listed weapon(s) at the given ranges. Odds of
hitting for weapons with a to-hit number are included in this average.
Weapon
0-6
6-12
12-18
18-24
24-30
30-36
36-48
48-60
60-62
B1 ~0.800 ~0.800 no effect no effect no effect no effect no effect no effect
no effect B2 ~1.600 ~1.600 ~0.800 ~0.800 no effect no effect no effect no
effect no effect B3 ~2.400 ~2.400 ~1.600 ~1.600 ~0.800 ~0.800 no effect no
effect no effect B4 ~3.200 ~3.200 ~2.400 ~2.400 ~1.600 ~1.600 ~0.800 no effect
no effect B5 ~4.000 ~4.000 ~3.200 ~3.200 ~2.400 ~2.400 ~1.600 ~0.800 no effect
B6 ~4.800 ~4.800 ~4.000 ~4.000 ~3.200 ~3.200 ~2.400 ~1.600 ~0.800 K1 0.972
0.777 0.583 0.388 0.194 no effect no effect no effect no effect K2 2.222 1.777
1.333 0.888 0.444 no effect no effect no effect no effect K3 3.750 3.000 2.250
1.500 0.750 no effect no effect no effect no effect K4 5.555 4.444 3.333 2.222
1.111 no effect no effect no effect no effect K5 7.639 6.111 4.583 3.056 1.528
no effect no effect no effect no effect K6 9.166 7.333 5.499 3.666 1.833 no
effect no effect no effect no effect K7 10.69 8.555 6.416 4.277 2.138 no
effect no effect no effect no effect 1xPTL 2.916 2.333 1.750 1.166 0.583 no
effect no effect no effect no effect 4xPTL 11.66 9.333 7.000 4.666 2.333 no
effect no effect no effect no effect
C) FB1, pg 12: Battlecruiser = TMF 80-110
T8 = 40% TMF Average Hull = 30% TMF FTL = 10% TMF FCS = mass 1
1-arc B5 = mass 16
1x 1-arc B5 = (16 + 1)/0.20 = TMF 85, Hull 26
or
2x 1-arc B5 = (16 + 16 +1) / 0.20 = TMF 165, Hull 50 (medium dreadnought
or small SDN)
I'll take on that ship any day, if the object is for the human ship to "kill
or drive off", not run away itself (as the T8 would assure it of doing so)
J
> Laserlight wrote:
> The cost of a K gun doesn't increase the same way as beams, but
In Cinematic or vector?
> A) the only ship in either FB, except the SV, with T8 is the ESU Scout
So? Nobody has Beam-5 either. Or K-7.
> B) the expected damage increases much faster with a K-gun (up to class
If you're including a factor for the area covered, I'm afraid I didn't see it.
> laserlight@quixnet.net wrote:
> B) the expected damage increases much faster with a K-gun (up to class
> 6, tapers off for +) than with a standard battery.
<confused look> Huh? What do you mean by "a factor for the area covered"?
These are all direct fire weapons, not area effect.
J
On Friday, September 05, 2003 10:04 AM, Jared Hilal
[SMTP:jlhilal@yahoo.com]
wrote:
> laserlight@quixnet.net wrote:
The math involved in play balance includes the arc of fire and the range. As a
rough example, if you double the range, you have quadruple the target area
where you can inflict damage against an opponent. A weapon that can't
be brought to bear on a target has a mass/points total of zero.
Brendan 'Neath Southern Skies
IMPORTANT: Notice to be read with this E-mail
1. Before opening any attachments, please check them for
viruses and defects. 2. This e-mail (including any
attachments) may contain confidential information for the use of the intended
recipient. 3. If you are not the intended recipient, please: contact the
sender by return
e-mail, to notify the misdirection; do not copy, print,
re-transmit, store or act in reliance on this e-mail; and
delete and destroy all copies of this e-mail. 4. Any views
expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and are not
a statement of Commonwealth policy unless otherwise stated. 5. Finally, please
do not remove this notice, so that any other readers are aware of these
restrictions.
> >If you're including a factor for the area covered, I'm afraid I
A Kgun covers the area of an arc 60 degrees wide by 30mu long. A
single-arc B4 covers 60 degrees x 48mu - roughly 2.5 times the area.
> Robertson, Brendan wrote:
> The math involved in play balance includes the arc of fire and the
However, it is still a single weapon and cannot hit * everything * in that
extended area * simultaneously *. The combat value increase is actually only
by a factor of square root of 2 ( that is: x2^0.5).
J
> Jared Hilal wrote:
> The math involved in play balance includes the arc of fire and the
Only if targets are scattered completely at random and the ship manoeuvres
completely at random :-/ Let's look at it in a bit more detail:
If the *firepower* is doubled (eg. you go from 1 die to 2 dice), then the
combat value increases by the square root of 2. That's straight out of
Lanchester.
However, the area covered only affects the probability that there will be *at
least one* target for the weapon to shoot at. If there isn't anything to shoot
at, the target can't shoot and its effective firepower is zero (at least for
the moment).
So, when you say that "doubling the area increases the combat value by
sqrt(2)", you're effectively saying that doubling the area doubles the chance
that there will be at least one target in its range and arc. However, this is
only true if the targets are randomly distributed throughout the combat area
and the ship doesn't deliberately manoeuvre to get them into its sight.
Since the targets usually aren't scattered at random (in FT they tend to be
flying in formations, for example) and the ship itself usually doesn't
manoeuvre at random either, doubling the area usually increases the
probability of having a target by more than a factor 2.
There's another factor to keep in mind as well: the longer-ranged weapon
can usually fire one or more shots before the shorter-ranged weapon gets
into range - which means that by the time the shorter-ranged weapon
*does* get into range, it has already taken damage. In Full Thrust, this means
that a short-ranged fleet attacking a long-ranged one will usually have
taken some thresholds and thus lost some weapons (or even lost some ships
entirely) before they get to return fire. Of course this increases the
combat value of the longer-ranged weapons further still :-/
Regards,
> Oerjan Ohlson wrote:
> Let's look at it in a bit more detail:
Yep.
> However, the area covered only affects the probability that there will
> be *at least one* target for the weapon to shoot at. If there isn't
> sqrt(2)", you're effectively saying that doubling the area doubles
I had not considered that, thank you for pointing it out.
> There's another factor to keep in mind as well: the longer-ranged
> a long-ranged one will usually have taken some thresholds and thus
However, this is where the size of the game area comes into play.
J
> Jared Hilal wrote:
> Since the targets usually aren't scattered at random (in FT they tend
You're welcome. Took me a few years to figure it out too.
> There's another factor to keep in mind as well: the longer-ranged
Give the man a medal :-)
Regards,
> Oerjan Ohlson wrote:
> Jared Hilal wrote:
As in: "... and you (OO) play on a game area larger than what is discussed in
Mr.Tuffley's FT books (though your way is mentioned as a personal preference
option), which makes you the exceptional case, not my group" and IMO the rules
should reflect the explicitly stated "FT standard" situation, perhaps with
suggested options for common variants,
e.g. the 6"/3" range for SMLs and PBLs.
J