> On 10 Jan 2005 at 23:00, The GZG Digest wrote:
> From: "laserlight@quixnet.net" <laserlight@quixnet.net>
Due to a lack of designer notes, we don't know what the cover shift is
supposed to _truly_ entail. I always assumed that being in a bush not
only made it harder to be seen (represented by the range die shift) but harder
to see the centre of mass of a target, thus making it difficult to hit a
target head on (thus the die shift to the Impact versus Armour roll).
Also, if you look at the bushes on my game board and apply the 1" = 10 metres
game scale, you often have 10 or more metres of bush to shoot through.
Does it make sense for PA to get an armour benefit for hiding behind a bush?
Probably not. Does it make sense for PA to get an armour benefit for being in
a brushy area the size of a large copse? Probably.
I give PA the armour shift because I feel that a piece of lichen on the game
board represents more than a single bush. It also makes the game easier to
play, without all sorts of special rules. Considering some of the other issues
in SG2 that have never been resolved or which give stranger results, I don't
sweat the open die shift for PA.
---
> Does it make sense for PA to get an armour benefit for hiding behind a
But the PA doesn't get penalized for shooting through the brush when they
return fire, so one could argue that they can't be too deep in the brush. And
it's not IP so it's not necessarily "snuggling up to cover".
I'm not saying the way I've been doing it is correct according to the rules
(which it isn't), just that it's a potential house-rule if John wants to
tone down PA a bit.
(<grin> I'm in sales -- I don't have to be right, I just have to be
plausible).
> On 11 Jan 2005 at 23:00, The GZG Digest wrote:
> From: "laserlight@quixnet.net" <laserlight@quixnet.net>
I deliberately didn't say "snuggling up to cover" because that would be IP.
Soft cover makes it harder to see the target's outline, which makes it less
likely for a shooter to deliberately hit a vital area. The only way
you can make it less likely to kill a figure after it's hit is to shift that
figure's armour die. I don't see a bush as adding a layer of plant fiber and
leaves to the target's armour, I see it as perhaps deflecting a round a little
bit, or changing the shooter's aim point from the centre
of mass to what he only _thinks_ is the centre of mass.
Again, this is where a lack of designer notes in a game hurt (or, perhaps,
liberate). You don't know what the game designer had in mind. Maybe Jon really
meant to have bushes give men better armour, literally.
Or, maybe he looked at the probability of killing a figure behind soft cover
versus no cover and said to himself, "The odds of hurting a figure
behind soft cover are more realistic if I apply shifts to both the range
die and the armour die. It may not make sense literally, but the odds come out
right using this mechanism." Or, maybe he just thought, "Apply the die shift
to both the range die and the armour die. It sort of feels
right, and it's easy to remember."
When you have ADD, you tend to want consistent rules. It took me quite a
while before I could play SG2 without constantly looking at the rules (and I
tend to do that sometimes, anyway, even when I'm certain of the rule). It's
easier for me to remember the soft cover die modifier if I apply it to both
range and armour, and I apply it to everyone, regardless of armour type.
> I'm not saying the way I've been doing it is correct according to the
I always thought that PA was sort of wimpy in SG2. A guy with a flintlock
pistol has a finite chance of killing a guy in PA. There's a 10.42% chance of
wounding or killing a guy in PA with a D4 impact weapon (taking into account
Impact versus Armour, and the automatic wound recovery roll
made by the PA figure). That seems kind of high to me.
That having been said, I do see your point as far as how soft cover "feels". I
mentioned a while back that cover should probably be rated with independent to
Range Die and Armour Die modifiers. A huge curtain of opaque felt, for
instance, should probably give a two die shift to hit (you can't see what's
behind it, and it muffles sound) but no die shift for to the armour die. I
wouldn't mind coming up with a list of common cover types and their ratings.
It would make a good house rule.
I can also see not applying the soft cover armour shift when using my quick
and dirty fire combat option on hyperbear.com, since it already gives low
impact weapons a disadvantage against PA.
But, hey, I think PA should be big and scary.
Of course, I have my own house rule that helps balance PA by allowing missiles
to target individual PA troopers...
> (<grin> I'm in sales -- I don't have to be right, I just have to be
Plausible until the contract is signed, you mean! *L*
---
> I always thought that PA was sort of wimpy in SG2. A guy with a
made by the PA figure). That seems kind of high to me.
Concur, and I'd prefer the "fixed armor number" suggestion you posted a while
ago. And whoever started this thread (sorry, I have a chronic caffeine
deficiency) might be interested in the Missiles vs Individual PA house rule.
> Concur, and I'd prefer the "fixed armor number" suggestion you posted a
Not a bad idea.
> And whoever started this thread (sorry, I have a chronic
Me
> might be interested in the Missiles vs Individual PA
which is?
> --- Allan Goodall <agoodall@att.net> wrote:
> On 11 Jan 2005 at 23:00, The GZG Digest wrote:
> Soft cover makes it harder to see the target's outline, which
This is not entirely correct in a large view. The shift to the Range Die
affects the number of casualties taken by the target unit. Example: A unit
receives effective fire in the 1st range band which rolls of 5, 7, and 8;
totaling 20. In the open they receive 5 hits IP they receive 3.33 hits Soft
cover they receive 3.33 hits
IP + soft cover they receive 2.5 hits
Hard cover they receive 2.5 hits
IP + hard cover they receive 2 hits
> I mentioned a while back that cover should probably be rated
We divide features into Concealment and Cover: Partial Concealment = 1 range
die shift, no armor shift Full Concealment = 2 range die shifts, no armor
shift Partial Light Cover = 1 range die shift, 1 armor die shift Full Light
Cover = 2 range die shifts, 1 armor die shift Partial Hard Cover = 1 range die
shift, 2 armor die shifts Full Hard Cover = 2 range die shifts, 2 armor die
shifts
Concealment is something that will not affect the passage of high velocity
rounds (like bushes, thin walls, small trees, etc.) Light cover gives some
protection against highvelocity rounds (like single or double brick walls,
medium trees, Pvt. Luckless, etc.) Hard cover gives good protection against
high velocity rounds (like
double concrete block walls, meter-thick trees, etc.)
> I always thought that PA was sort of wimpy in SG2. A guy with a
I also believe that the RAW SG2 PA is wimpy. We give unpowered armor
the full d4-d12 range and make PA class 2 personal armor, thus
Light PA = PA:d8 Medium PA = PA:d10 Heavy PA = PA:D12
Against small arms that do NOT have a * impact (e.g. I:d10), PA gets a x2
armor roll multiplier. Against small arms that have a * impact (e.g. I:d10*),
PA gets a x1 armor roll multiplier. Against heavy weapons, PA can be targeted
as a dispersed target with armor as above or a single trooper can be targeed
as a size 0.5 Point Target with a x1 armor roll multiplier.
J
> On 13 Jan 2005 at 23:00, The GZG Digest wrote:
> From: "Richard Kirke" <richardkirke@hotmail.com>
Hmm... I don't have that up on my web site, yet. I'll have to do that.
Chris (Laserlight) and I playtested this a couple of times. We allowed
missiles to fire at PA as though the PA a vehicle. The PA would roll an ECM
die equal to the squad's Sensor Die.
Chris, do you remember if we gave the PA shifts to their Sensor Die based on
whether or not they were IP or in cover? I don't think we did, although we did
shift the Armour die due to cover and IP.
Missiles can be really nasty against PA. The upside, of course, is that a
single missile can only take out a single PA trooper.
Chris, can you remember how we handled missile fire against squads? I think we
treated it just like heavy weapon fire, with a D8 impact, didn't we? Gosh, I
can't remember. I do seem to remember that was the option we
gave the missile firing trooper: fire at the entire missile trooper squad with
a small impact, or fire at a single trooper as though he was a vehicle. If
Chris can help enlighten me, I'll add the rule to my web site.
---
> Chris (Laserlight) and I playtested this a couple of times.
It was the game between Roger and I that you GM'd, but I don't think that I
actually took a "called shot" at PA. Don't recall the details,
although I likely have the notes at home.
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