> >Preliminary concept sketches of newfound allies. Started with
Not a bad idea in general, Some details: It is not obvious from the sketch
whether the Oitjuan have any "hands" (manipulative organs). Any organism that
develops technology must be able manipulate things with a fair degree of
dexterity. No sensory equipment or mouth is visible. Mechanically, it would be
more efficient if the legs were vertical rather than sperad out to the sides.
Vertical legs support the body directly whereas spread legs need energy or
some special blocking mechanism to maintain the body in a lifted position.
> >Biology:
Sounds pretty weird. If the athmosphere is aggressive, where do pure metals
come from? Are there any "plants" that photosynthesize them?
> >Exoskeleton is titanium/ceramics laced with crystallized carbon.
Remains
> >rigid in extremely high temperatures.
How high are the temperatures supposed to be? Wouldn't ceramics be overkill
even for a few hundred degrees?
A major problem with an exoskeleton is growth. A stiff exoskeleton restricts
the size of organisms. On Earth most animals with a ExS regularly shed the
skeleton to grow a new, bigger one. During this time, they are extremely
vulnerable. Another option would be to have a skeleton composed only of shapes
that can be expanded: flat plates (the triangular design of Oitjuan
looks good for this), cones, snail/seashell shapes.
> Musculature is mostly steel cable,
Hard to see how this could evolve from primitive organisms
> >perhaps mercury for the circulatory system.
> >2) the digestive process efficiently and effortlessly removes the
products(bodily
> >excrement=pure, refined iron and steel ; respiratory waste=oxygen).
??? This will need more explaining. Which metals of the diet are used? Why is
iron not a useful item? why is Oxygen a waste product? Extra energy might be
gained by combining iron and Oxygen to form rust. Steel is not a "pure"
product. Why should waste products be "pure, refined"? Note that on Earth
animal waste products are hardly "pure, refined".
> >
Electronic (metal/semimetal based) switches are much faster and smaller
than Neurons. Any electric switching would need insulation elements. High
temperature may indeed need sturdier channels. However, "Slow thinking" is not
an obvious result of the combination.
Greetings Karl Heinz
G'day,
> Mechanically, it would be more efficient if
However, there may be no need to lift if they develop tech, tools etc that can
be used in a dorso ventrally flattened position. Many crabs are good at
manipulating stuff with little requirement for lifting up as they do it this
and while not analogous to the creature in question octopus are brilliant at
using tools without being in a "lifted position".
> Sounds pretty weird. If the athmosphere is aggressive, where
They don't need to be pure, just accessible. The metals we use biochemically
aren't in pure forms.
> Are there any "plants" that photosynthesize them ?
Don't need plants as such, bacterial (sulphur based) chemosynthesis is more
than enough for the vent fauna etc of Earth and would be more than likely in a
planet (like Venus) where there is little if any direct sunlight.
> On Earth most animals with a ExS
I'd be more concerned with reproduction. You don't have to moult once you're
big enough, or you could just make sure you do it in a "safe place" and
staggered, but on Earth the adults of many exoskeleton using species moult
more to allow for reproduction rather than growth alone.
> Another option would be to have a skeleton
Not a bad idea.
> Musculature is mostly steel cable,
Well steel maybe, but I could live with analogous structures (seeing some of
the stuff really used on earth is stronger).
Cheers
Beth.Fulton@csiro.au schrieb:
> G'day,
Here, I am not so much concerned with tool use as with locomotion.
Unless the athmosphere/fluid where it habitually lives is dense enough
to provide significant buoyancy, moving with splayed legs implies significant
energy costs.
Among the largest splayed-leg creatures are crocodiles. They develop
high sprint speeds but are not good endurance runners, AFAIK. From the time of
Dinosaurs to today, all larger land animals had vertical legs.
> > Sounds pretty weird. If the athmosphere is aggressive,
Naturally, metals will tend to corrode to the lowest-energy chemical
state, especially in a high-temperature environment. They may be
available but will need energy to change to usable forms.
> >Are there any "plants" that photosynthesize them ?
> Don't need plants as such, bacterial (sulphur based)
Would that be sufficient to maintain continent-spanning ecosystems for
very long time spans?
Overall, I find the postulated biochemistry the less credible aspect of
the Oitjuan. Something similar to hot-vent animals operating at 100+
degrees celsius and high air pressure requires fewer leaps of faith and would
be equally plausible for an environment that is uncomfortable for humans.
> >
I'm not so much concerned about the material as about the functions. First
off, cables would not be analogous to muscles as engines for the movement, but
rather to sinews, which link the muscles and moving limbs
and that re-direct the movement. In the postulated electro-chemical
organism, the analoge to muscles would be electric motors or linear
electromagnetic actuators.
Greetings Karl Heinz
KH.Ranitzsch@t-online.de schrieb:
> > > Mechanically, it would be more efficient if
If you'll recall my original posting on this issue, these aliens are native to
a world with an incredibly dense atmosphere, somewhere on the order of
2-4 atmospheres. Is that dense enough to help?
> > > Sounds pretty weird. If the athmosphere is aggressive,
The energy's called metabolism. Metal for these creatures is food, NOT
building material.
> > >Are there any "plants" that photosynthesize them ?
I suppose it would if it were the predominant biological system on the planet
in question.
> Overall, I find the postulated biochemistry the less credible aspect of
> > >> Musculature is mostly steel cable,
As my friend is not a biologist, some aspects of his original e-mail
will NOT be included in the final xenology of the oitjuan. I suspect this will
be one of the issues where things change significantly.
> KH.Ranitzsch@t-online.de Wrote:
> Not a bad idea in general, Some details:
The sketches were partial, not complete. Rest assured they would have
"hands" and "Mouths/eyes" etc.
> > >2) the digestive process efficiently and effortlessly removes the
Why
> is iron not a useful item ? why is Oxygen a waste product ? Extra
I've already brought this point up with him, and he had already agreed that
this was one point that needed to be changed.
> > >
> than
is
> not an obvious result of the combination.
The speed of the individual neurons would be faster, yes, so they would have
quicker reactions. But the lower density of the neurons would mean their
thinking would be a little more linear than ours, and thus slower.
G'day,
> Here, I am not so much concerned with tool use as with locomotion.
Depends on the linkages - look at millipedes etc, not the same energy
costs as other linkages (like lobsters).
> Would that be sufficient to maintain continent-spanning
Yep. Current ecosystems based on this stuff are turning out to be richer, more
diverse and wide spread than expected. The seep fauna are turning out to be a
huge deal. Also current theory has it that it may well be what the first
ecosystems were like before they set up more photosynthetic friendly
conditions.
> Something similar to hot-vent animals operating at 100+
That's how I'm viewing them though, there are actually less changes (apart
from sizeable increases in mass) between deep vent/seep fauna and these
alien critters than you'd expect.
Cheers
[quoted original message omitted]
> KH.Ranitzsch wrote:
For
> terrestrial animals, it has two functions: providing building material
I'm aware of the function of food. Metals are a substantial part of the
diets of these creature because it provides energy, as posutlated by my
friend. I'm guessing that the building materials in their diet would include
silicon, but I'm not sure. We're still discussing.