How much do cammo schemes vary between different vehicles in the same
force? And by same force, I mean tanks that are deployed side-by-side,
not just in the same army. Would in be unheard of to have some tanks in cammo,
and some in just a base coat?
I have a large pile of plastic tanks from Frotress Figures, and they come in
two basic types: Small hovertanks, with a large fixed gun on one side of the
hull. And larger hovertanks, with a pair of turreted guns.
Both types are very well done, but the smaller tanks have a lot more fine
detail -- detail which I have used an ink wash to bring out, and which
looks very good indeed.
The larger tanks have a lot of large, smooth areas on their hull -- this
makes painting an elaborate cammo scheme very easy.
The problem comes when I apply that cammo scheme to the smaller tanks. Those
details that I am so fond of vanish, obscured by the camoflage. Realistic
though this is, I like the detail. A lot.
Would it, then, be inappropriate to have the big guys in cammo, and the
smaller ones just in their base coat? They would look more or less the same,
but it bothers me that the small guys wouldn't quite match. How
often, if ever, did something like this occur in the so-called "real
world" that I keep hearing about?
[snip]
> The problem comes when I apply that cammo scheme to the smaller tanks.
Why not?
You could also do the camo, then wash with black or Payne's grey to bring back
the detail.
- Sam
***
How much do cammo schemes vary between different vehicles in the same force?
***
I would think it would be uncommon, but you could always use
a functional equivalent of PSB, the psuedo-history.
'The larger units had been kept in reserve areas where, in powered down
status, they utilized the advantages of full camouflage paint, while smaller
front line units, constantly in action, and therefore whose main threat was
electronic detection, had reverted to solid paint for simplicity of
maintenance...'
Of course, the example uses the logic in SJG's Ogre Miniatures book, which
many on the list view askance, but you can work out your own rational...
I rather like: 'The smaller units, painted blaze orange, would act as staked
lamb, drawing the enemy into the killing zone, for the camouflaged heavies'
hunters. This was not a popular tactic
with junior officers commanding those light units.' ;->=
The_Beast
> John Crimmins wrote:
> How much do cammo schemes vary between different vehicles in the same
Now I am not one for painting, but I do see your problem...
Could you just detail the parts you don't mind covering up...or choose a
simpler camo scheme?
Or you could paint 'em like some modern fighter planes.
Hi !!!
In einer eMail vom 27.06.99 00:36:11 (MEZ) - Mitteleurop. Sommerzeit
schreibt johncrim@voicenet.com:
> How much do cammo schemes vary between different vehicles in the same
Well,...during my time in the Bundeswehr (an ancient NSL Armed Forces
predecessor) from '86 to '88, the Bundeswehr was just switching to the new
Drei-Farben-Tarnanstrich (three colour camo) and so the Bundeswehr had
still
lots of olive-drab painted vehicles together with the camouflaged ones
(2/3
to 1/3
in my unit). As the newer vehicles were already painted in the new scheme, the
"plain" ones were mostly the older ones (M113, LEO 1, etc...) and a lot of the
new trucks came in just the new green base colour...
TschüÃ!!! Hauke
> How much do cammo schemes vary between different vehicles in the same
How about this: those clever scientists of the 22nd century have developed
mission adaptive colour coatings for armoured vehicles. They adapt to the
local requirements as needed - active camoflage. There is no reason
that 2 vehicles of the same type in the same unit can't look different, if
assuming this type of coating. You wouldn't want to have more than a couple of
different schemes in your force, or it will look shoddy as a
group of models - no unity of theme - but no reason not to have camo on
the big ones and plain on the others.
The US Airforce is presently experimenting with coloured film coatings for
aircraft that are applied like a big peel-and-stick decal. The idea
here is that they might be a) a lot cheaper than repainting the aircraft with
expensive paint every few years, b) a lot lighter than the paint, thereby
increasing useful load, and c) able to have interesting additive coatings for
radar absorbtion, etc. Maybe your tanks use this, and the camo pattern is
simply big sheets of stick on film that has been applied to some, but not all,
of the vehicles.
> From a modelling perspective, it is difficult to paint a good camo
> At 09:22 PM 6/26/99 -0500, you wrote:
My feeling on such matters has always been this: Paint them as you like, and
then come up with an excuse to justify it afterwards. In this particular
instance, there was something about the aesthetics of painting different units
in different ways (along with the fact that this was the THIRD DAMN PAINTJOB,
because none of the others had looked right) that led to my asking in this
instance.
That, and because the list had been so quiet yesterday.
In the end, I discovered something that works on both of them, as well as the
APCs.
Base of Cel-Vinyls "Grayed Orange-Yellow 20" -- a dark tan.
Ink with Citadel Brown ink.
Drybrush "down" -- along the sides of the tank, always towards the skirt
> At 03:37 PM 6/27/99 -0400, you wrote:
Some of my ICE "Space Rangers" -- the best powered armor I''ve yet seen,
and a bargain at 50 figures for $25.00 -- are going to have each unit
painted in a different form of cammo. One in arctic, one in jungle, one in
urban.... Breaks up the monontony of painting the same thing over and over
again.
> The US Airforce is presently experimenting with coloured film coatings
I find this idea oddly appealing. I've always liked the idea of the liquid
crystal paint scheme that can be changed at the click of a button, too.
> From a modelling perspective, it is difficult to paint a good camo
I don't worry about realism as much as I do over what looks good, and what
looks right on the table. And ink is great stuff. Gray ink is especially
useful, I've found.
> At 2:09 PM -0700 6/27/99, John Crimmins wrote:
The mind staggers at the potential for practical jokes on your squadron
mates...
> I don't worry about realism as much as I do over what looks good, and
Grey ink? Do tell, I haven't come accross any of that. Sounds
interesting. I take it that grey ink isn't just a washed-out black ?
> Hi !!!
There could be a lot of different justifications for differing paint schemes
within units, including Hauke's experience above (a force in the process of
changing paint schemes, hence some vehicles repainted and some not), and other
excuses such as replacement vehicles delivered to the unit to replace losses,
which may be in the manufacturer's basic paint (if new equipment) or in a
totally different scheme if reassigned from another unit
originally fighting in a different environment. For space-mobile units,
I could imagine many cases where they suddenly find themselves fighting in a
totally different type of terrain and vegetation from their previous campaign,
and while some units may have the time for a hasty repaint of some or all of
their vehicles, others may not. In a "hot" campaign there are plenty of other
priorities higher than slapping some new paint on the panzer! I see NO problem
with using a mix of schemes, you can always come up with some sort of
justification for it...
> At 02:14 PM 6/27/99 -0700, you wrote:
You could program it to write "SHOOT ME" on the back of his tank, for
example....
> I don't worry about realism as much as I do over what looks good, and
I actually have two kinds: FW "Cool Gray" and Pelikan Gray. Neither is
perfect, though. The Pelikan is a little too light and covers very badly, but
the FW is a little too dark and covers really well. I usually mix them
50/50, and add an equal amount of water. This is darn near perfect, and
has kept me from bothering to find a better ink. Because it isn't black, it
doesn't stain the surface to the same degree that black does. It darkens it a
little, but not nearly as much.
As to what I use them for.... Shading white, for one thing. Adding a gray wash
over a white base, and then doing a light drybrushing of white afterwards,
gives a great effect for white armor (like my UN troops). You can use it to
add "5:00 shadow" to the faces of some of your troops.. You can use it as a
sort of "instant weathering" effect on some figures, as well.
I don't use it every day, but I've found it to be a relatively versatile tool.
In a message dated 99-06-26 18:36:11 EDT, you write:
<<
How much do cammo schemes vary between different vehicles in the same
force? And by same force, I mean tanks that are deployed side-by-side,
not just in the same army. Would in be unheard of to have some tanks in cammo,
and some in just a base coat?
> [quoted text omitted]
Historically, it has depended on the what was available to paint the vehicles
with and where the painting was being done. WWII German armor cammo paint jobs
were often done in the field or at maintenance depots. Regulations were
published as to what cammo pattern was to be used but how they was interperted
and applied depended on how much paint was available. Some of the paints had
to be thined prior to application. In many cases the only thiner available was
gasoline. If given a choice (particularly late in the war)
between fuel for combat operations and conformance to the latest cammo
regulations, I would think that you may well run into situations in which
units may not have had uniform paint jobs between vehicles.
Perry
> A good source of unfamiliar schemes is "Blitzkrieg: Armour,
sadly out of print.
> At 19:19 28/06/99 EDT, you wrote:
The early WW2 French had a huge range of camouflage schemes, several unique to
particular types of vehicle, and also in some cases had the astonishing
practice of a unique scheme or variation for
platoon/company/batallion command tanks!
In the latter part of WW2, the British Army tended to have
home-produced equipment in Khaki Drab, and lend-lease stuff in US Olive
Drab. I would thing that might lead to e.g. Motor Batallions with O.D.
half-tracks and K.D. Universal Carriers. Early in the war, British tank
units in France used mixtures of tank types, sometimes with different variants
of the official scheme on different types.
A good source of unfamiliar schemes is "Blitzkrieg: Armour, camouflage and
markings" by Steven J Zaloga.
Rob
In a message dated 6/29/99 12:11:00 PM EST, rpaul@worf.molbiol.ox.ac.uk
writes:
<<
In the latter part of WW2, the British Army tended to have
home-produced equipment in Khaki Drab, and lend-lease stuff in US Olive
Drab. I would thing that might lead to e.g. Motor Batallions with O.D.
half-tracks and K.D. Universal Carriers. Early in the war, British
tank units in France used mixtures of tank types, sometimes with different
variants of the official scheme on different types.
A good source of unfamiliar schemes is "Blitzkrieg: Armour, camouflage and
markings" by Steven J Zaloga.
> [quoted text omitted]
It's often a matter of what paints do I have and will I use a spray gun or a
brush while I do it. Field camoflage is most often a "field" expediency so it
varies widely
G'day guys,
> Field camoflage is most often a "field" expediency so it
I was interested to note on a documentray last night about the war in Kasmir
that none of their equipment was in camouflage it was all solid colours
(white, dark green, drab green, dark brown, sandy brown to name but a few) and
even that wasn't consistent across the equipment being used by the same
command.
Cheers
Beth
In a message dated 6/29/99 6:34:06 PM EST, beth.fulton@marine.csiro.au
writes:
<<
I was interested to note on a documentray last night about the war in Kasmir
that none of their equipment was in camouflage it was all solid colours
(white, dark green, drab green, dark brown, sandy brown to name but a few) and
even that wasn't consistent across the equipment being used by the same
command.
Cheers
Beth
> [quoted text omitted]
The Indians and the Pakistanis ahve a certain amount of equipment erosion in
the form of stealing blindly from unit stores. All the camo paints probably
painted the houses belonging to the units officers and senior non-coms