And it came to pass that the Wondrous St^3 Jon didst opine:
> The "Heavy Cruiser" bit may be just an odd bit of nomenclature
I'd agree. Remember that Andromeda the series is based on a Gene
Roddenberry concept, and Gene had a thing about the military --
"StarFleet is _not_ a military organisation", etc. He also seems to
have had a fondness for the idea of heavy cruisers as the optimum size for
"warships" (even if they weren't, officially). The Enterprise was
originally supposed to be a cruiser-class ship, but was later
"upgraded" to "starship" class to make it that bit more special, and the
number in the fleet was set at a microscopic 12 to explain their scarcity.
I think Gene thought that a cruiser would, as its name implied,
_cruise_ by itself, thereby allowing more opportunities to encounter
something new and plot-worthy. By contrast, "battleships" tend to be
kept in fleets, or at least form the command element of a squadron, and
don't move around so much -- not into unexplored territory, anyway.
Amusingly (?), in the novelisation of the first ST film (supposedly written by
Roddenberry), he has Kirk muse that the refitted Enterprise, though termed a
heavy cruiser by StarFleet (after Franz Joseph, methinks), could be called a
battleship in terms of its capabilities, but really ought to be known as a
research and exploration ship, because that was its prime mission. Hey, we
always knew that the
phasers and torpedoes are only there as a back-up to Kirk's
charisma/chutzpah/chest peeking out from a ripped shirt, or Picard's
surrender reflex, didn't we? <g>
Later, the not-quite-so-saintly Jon mused (in the form of "typing out
loud"):
> Good thing I never mentioned Alyson Hannigan and Jessica Alba in the
Oh, _please_ tell me that this is the next figure set in the GCS
range... <eg>
Phil -- see you all at Salute, gang. I'll be the stereotypical
overweight, long-haired, bearded, bespectacled guy flanked by two very
large offspring, both with coppery-brown hair! We're fairly
recognisable... <g>
----
"If you let a smile be your umbrella... you'll get wet teeth!"
On Fri, 26 Apr 2002 08:48:44 +0100 (BST), Phillip Atcliffe
> <Phillip.Atcliffe@uwe.ac.uk> wrote:
> I'd agree. Remember that Andromeda the series is based on a Gene
Okay, so the Andromeda everyone on here is talking about is that really awful
sci-fi show with the guy who played Hercules, right? *
I don't think the "Starfleet is not a military organization" ruling was
Roddenberry's. I think it was Paramount's. The original Trek seemed to show
that it very much was a military organization.
* It may not be _that_ awful. I caught the first episode and vowed to
stay away from it. It might have gotten better... it wouldn't be easy to get
much worse.
In message <agticuk1u6i2jv18536t8n2hg9a30meh89@4ax.com>
> Allan Goodall <agoodall@att.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Apr 2002 08:48:44 +0100 (BST), Phillip Atcliffe
Urr.. well, I have an incredibly high tolerance for bad sci-fi, and some
of the episodes really annoyed _me_!
With better script-writers and, in several places, cast, it had
potential.
Unfortunately, from what I've heard - it may well get lose - Mr. Sorbo
apparently has a certain amount of control, and wishes it to be more
action-oriented & episodic :-(
Expect it to turn into something a TNT exec would like...
But I quite like the ships though :-)
> Charles Taylor wrote:
> With better script-writers and, in several places, cast, it had
I Like Tyr, I Like the ship, and I like the alien chick (sorry for the
non-PC description). Rommie herself and the captains are annoying, and
the engineer... well, depends on the episode.
> But I quite like the ships though :-)
There's any other reason to watch it besides the space battles?
Seriously, I do enjoy some episodes, but I don't watch it regularly, and I
probably have been lucky. The episode where Hercules and Tyr are trying to
escape fro a planetary base was quite good.
3B^2
Quoting Allan Goodall <agoodall@att.net>:
> I don't think the "Starfleet is not a military organization" ruling
Starfleet was a military operation in the pilot episodes - the
characters mention being involved in ground warfare led by the Captain. The
impression given (and meant to be given apparently) is that of a vessel whose
crew double up as marines.
If you watch the first pilot: the managere (however you spell it...) There are
two scenes of importance. One near the beginning, and one near the end.
The first: The crew has just beamed down, and were greeting the colonists.
> From the crew's statements, there was an earlier (and slower)
stardrive. They were implying that the Enterprize's warp drive is compleatly
new. This seems to say that the Enterprize was among the first few ships to
have the new warp drive.
The second: At the end, Captain Pike makes orders to go. Spock then says
something like "prepair hyper drive". This seems to imply that the Enterprize
still has it's older drive (or at least some of the components...).
These two scenes seem to suggest that the "constelation class starships" were
a new class of ships put in service a few years before the warp drive was
ready. So the Enterprize was probably an upgrade of its old "hyper drive".
In the classic series...(ie Kirk and friends.) Scotty is seen doing all kinds
of things to the Enterprize's poor old warp drive. This also suggests a couple
of things...Scotty may have had something to do with the warp drive's
development(IMHO)...That the Federation Starfleet was limiting the warpdrive
to the 12 existing ships of the constelation class, until it was fully
understood.
It seems to me IMHO that starfleet was much bigger than 12 ships. The
federation just couldn't handle it's busness with so few ships. During the
classic series the rest of Starfleet was ran by this "hyper drive".
What does all this mean to me? That the federation only issued a few warp
powered ships, until they could
trust the engine/power system.
Donald Hosford (I just love having these things on video...)
> Phillip Atcliffe wrote:
(snippage)
> The Enterprise was
(snippage)
> ----
> At 04:15 29/04/02 -0400, Donald wrote:
For those interested the 12 twelve Constitution class starships (MK-IX
class, Heavy Cruiser type) were just the first batch (I believe "flight" is
the correct US Navy term), the construction of the initial twelve including
the Enterprise were authorized on Stardate 0965
The construction of another batch of 16 ships was authorized on Stardate
3220 (MK-IXA, Bonhomme Richard Class).
On Stardate 4444, another 4 starships was authorized to replace 4 lost out of
the initial 12.
On Stardate 5930, a further batch of 105 starships (MK-IXB, Achernar
Class) was authorized.
This of course doesn't count the 56 destroyer class, 40 scout class, 140
Transport/Tug class and the proposed construction of 20 dreadnought
class starships [and yes they all used warp power:)]
Source: Star Trek Star Fleet Technical Manual (copyright 1975), and yes for
all you ex-SFB players, yes it's THAT technical manual. The one that
along
with the blue prints/deck plans of the Enterprise, the Klingon D-7
cruiser and Romulan Warbird provided the basis for Star Fleet Battles.
live long and prosper;)
OTOH I remember STNG being touted as Rodenberry's vision uncorrupted by
network suits. Hence Wesley Crusher, a character Rodenberry wanted in the
original but was not allowed to include. Also Rodenberry's Federation was very
averse to violence. It was apparently only at the behest of the network suits
that ST had so many fight scenes.
Bob
> > that it very much was a military organization.