From: db-ft@w... (David Brewer)
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 23:36:19 +0000
Subject: Re: Am I a Republic revisionist? Re: Sci-Fi Crossover afteractionreport
> Joseph Arnold wrote:
It's
> not so much the PC-ness of it, but the fact that one has to be
I think this shows the low quality of Brin's penny-ante
nitpicking. Even in Star Wars it was pretty much clear that it was Skywalker's
paternity that predisposed him to be a hero. ("The Force is strong in this
one" is remarked, showing that he tests
Jedi-positive.)
This is pretty much a straight copy from King Arthur, with a
Merlin-like figure watching over the boy from a distance as he
grows up without his adoptive parents or himself knowing his destiny, although
I suppose in general Skywalker is more of a
grail-knight figure than a King Arthur. Of course, Joseph
Campbell, from whom Lucas pinched all his core ideas, was really big on grail
romances, as well as on virgin births, and so on. If you've seen it all
before, that's the whole point.
If any wargamer here hasn't seen Phantom Menace, you should... the climax of
the film involves four simultaneous battles all at different scales: a mass
battle, a skirmish, a duel and a dogfight. Cracking stuff. And us Brits get
spot such unlikely talent as Celia Imrie (from Wood and Walters) and Derek
Griffiths
(from Playschool)... and I think that pilot-guy may have been
Danny from Withnail and I.
Still, Ep. 2 is going to have to work hard in the
epic-sweeping-romance stakes to top Crouching Tiger, Hidden
Dragon, but this is getting way OT.
> There was
<troll>
Y'know, between Star Trek and the A-Team it's a wonder you didn't
all grow up to be Marxist Leninists...
</troll>
--
David Brewer
"It is foolishness and endless trouble to cast a stone at every
dog that barks at you." - George Silver, gentleman, c.1600
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To: "Jay Arnold" <jdarnold@siu.edu>
Cc: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: Mobile infantry in SG2
In-reply-to: Message from "Jay Arnold" <jdarnold@siu.edu>
of "Wed, 06 Dec 2000 16:23:05 CST."
<NEBBKHOOCLECLODFJBHIMEFOCBAA.jdarnold@siu.edu>
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 17:43:46 -0600
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In message <NEBBKHOOCLECLODFJBHIMEFOCBAA.jdarnold@siu.edu>, "Jay Arnold"
writes
:
> This of course begs the question why should a vehicle have half the
Of course, why should *any* detached element lose an action?
> why should a squad be limited in its actions because some tread heads
What about treating the APCs of a platoon as a single squad? Too restrictive?
I took a quick look through
http://www.adtdl.army.mil/atdls.htm and didn't see anything-- maybe
somebody with more knowledge than me could answer?
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Subject: Re: Mobile infantry in SG2
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***
Of course, why should *any* detached element lose an action?
***
Pardon the vac-head comment, but I thought that would indicate the loss
of command control of split units. The unit doesn't actually lose abilities,
or even capability, just it's unfair to have disperse groups working as well
together as if they were in close contact.
Not the case?
The_Beast
-Douglas J. Evans, curmudgeon
One World, one Web, one Program - Microsoft promotional ad
Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer - Adolf Hitler
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Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 18:27:32 -0600
Subject: Re: Mobile infantry in SG2
From: "Joseph Arnold" <jdarnold@siu.edu>
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I should point out that I meant this to mean BEFORE the infantry dismount.
After, they would have seperate activations, per normal.
----------
> From: "Jay Arnold" <jdarnold@siu.edu>
For the
> sake of simplicity, the squad's action is taken at the same time as
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Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 19:30:15 EST
Subject: Re: New firearms technology
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
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In a message dated 12/6/00 5:40:28 PM Central Standard Time,
david@brewer.to writes:
> My grandfather knew people at Boscombe Down during WW2 that used
Indeed. I grew up in El Paso, Texas near Fort Bliss (the Army Air Defense
School). Soldiers used microwaves all the time. And every year they had
serious burn cases when individuals cooked a hand or arm, and almost yearly
fatalities when some stupid individual stepped into a microwave beam at a
range of 20 feet or less. Yes, they will drop down stone dead and partially
cooked.
--part1_ee.e0b2f7c.27603417_boundary
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated
12/6/00 5:40:
28 PM Central Standard Time, david@brewer.to <BR>writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid;
MARGIN-LEFT: 5
px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">My grandfather knew people at
Boscomb e Down during WW2 that used <BR>early radar equipment to warm up their
lunches, a sort of early
<BR>microwave oven.</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR>Indeed. I grew up in El Paso, Texas near Fort Bliss (the Army Air Defense
< BR>School). Soldiers used microwaves all the time. And every year they had
<BR> serious burn cases when individuals cooked a hand or arm, and almost
yearly <BR
> fatalities when some stupid individual stepped into a microwave beam at
range of 20 feet or less. Yes, they will drop down stone dead and partially
<BR
> cooked.</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 18:32:06 -0600
Subject: Re: Mobile infantry in SG2
From: "Joseph Arnold" <jdarnold@siu.edu>
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As far as treating the IFV's of a platoon as a squad, I don't agree. The IFV
provides direct fire support (and possibly anti-armor support as well)
to the dismounts. If you were to lump the IFV's into a single unit, they would
have to split fire anyway, causing the need to detach one or two of the IFV's,
etc. So basically you have the same problem as before, just with a different
unit. If you're working with much more than 4 vehicles per side, you should
probably be playing Dirtside, anyway. I've always found Stargrunt to be at
it's most enjoyable when there about 2 platoons worth of troops with a command
element. Call it "Company minus." Jay
----------
> From: Andy Cowell <andy@cowell.org>
> In message <NEBBKHOOCLECLODFJBHIMEFOCBAA.jdarnold@siu.edu>, "Jay
writes
> :
For the
> What about treating the APCs of a platoon as a single squad? Too
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From: Allan Goodall <awg@sympatico.ca>
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: Mobile infantry in SG2
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 20:29:46 -0500
Organization: Haphazard at best.
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<NEBBKHOOCLECLODFJBHIMEFOCBAA.jdarnold@siu.edu>
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On Wed, 6 Dec 2000 16:23:05 -0600, "Jay Arnold" <jdarnold@siu.edu>
wrote:
> I think a sensible alternitive is to treat an APC/IFV/CFV and
This IS actually in the rules. You have two choices: the vehicle can be part
of the squad or it can be a separate element.
I've always made APCs separate squads. I give them a one or two person crew
(usually). So, you can activate the vehicle and move it and fire it
separately. The squad inside can be activated separately, as well.
I've kept the rules fairly "pure" in this respect. As the rules are written,
it's hard for a vehicle to drive along, dump the squad inside, and then move
to nearby cover. The rules don't let another squad activate in the middle of a
vehicle's movement. On the other hand, I don't find this really that big a
deal in practice. A squad can move up to 6" from a vehicle when they disgorge.
That's a full normal move distance. There are few times when I've wanted to
disgorge infantry and then move their taxi more than 6" away. I can see this,
though, as a house rule or a scenario specific rule.
Allan Goodall awg@sympatico.ca
Goodall's Grotto: http://www.vex.net/~agoodall
"Surprisingly, when you throw two naked women with sex toys into a living room
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always go bad." - Kyle Baker, "You Are Here"
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Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 20:36:03 -0500
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So who's running it at GZG IV?
Los
> Jeremy Sadler wrote:
> > Last time I played it was at Cancon '98, where we gamed out the
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Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 19:37:28 -0600
Subject: Re: Mobile infantry in SG2
From: "Joseph Arnold" <jdarnold@siu.edu>
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> This IS actually in the rules.
Yeah, like we actually *read* the rules. Hah!
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From: Allan Goodall <awg@sympatico.ca>
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: Mobile infantry in SG2
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 20:55:33 -0500
Organization: Haphazard at best.
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On Wed, 06 Dec 2000 19:37:28 -0600, "Joseph Arnold" <jdarnold@siu.edu>
wrote:
> Yeah, like we actually *read* the rules. Hah!
*L* I did. In detail.
I decided earlier this year to make a "cheat sheet" of weird and arcane rules.
What ended up happening was that I created an "Advanced Reference Summary"
sheet. I was able to put ALL the rules on 5 sheets of paper (2 double sided
pages, and one single sided page). I went through the rules rather thoroughly
as I wanted to put page number references against all the rules.
One of these days I should take the page number references, anyway, and create
an index for SG2. I'm about halfway there as it is.
Allan Goodall awg@sympatico.ca
Goodall's Grotto: http://www.vex.net/~agoodall
"Surprisingly, when you throw two naked women with sex toys into a living room
full of drunken men, things
always go bad." - Kyle Baker, "You Are Here"
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Subject: rules cheat sheet was Re: Mobile infantry in SG2
From: "Joseph Arnold" <jdarnold@siu.edu>
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Praise be to Jah! Don't get me wrong, I love the GZG systems, but they are
just about the most user-unfriendly rulebooks ever made for wargames (at
least for games I've played). A useful index/concordance is long
overdue.
----------
> From: Allan Goodall <awg@sympatico.ca>
> On Wed, 06 Dec 2000 19:37:28 -0600, "Joseph Arnold" <jdarnold@siu.edu>
wrote:
> Yeah, like we actually *read* the rules. Hah!
From - Wed Dec 13 16:38:06 2000
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From: Beth Fulton <beth.fulton@marine.csiro.au>
Subject: Re: [FT] Salvo Missile (and Fighter) Range
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G'day,
> I would never do such a thing, Beth.
So you're giving me a sporting chance to get Christmas in before they find me?
Very thoughtful, never let it be said you're less than a gentleman
;)
Cheers
Beth
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Elizabeth Fulton
c/o CSIRO Division of Marine Research
GPO Box 1538 HOBART TASMANIA 7001 AUSTRALIA
Phone (03) 6232 5018 International +61 3 6232 5018
Fax 03 6232 5053 International +61 3 6232 5053
email: beth.fulton@marine.csiro.au
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From: Allan Goodall <awg@sympatico.ca>
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: rules cheat sheet was Re: Mobile infantry in SG2
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 21:17:40 -0500
Organization: Haphazard at best.
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On Wed, 06 Dec 2000 20:00:50 -0600, "Joseph Arnold" <jdarnold@siu.edu>
wrote:
> Praise be to Jah! Don't get me wrong, I love the GZG systems, but they
Uh... no they're not. *L*
First off, SG2 makes a sort of weird semblance of sense once you've used it a
bit. The trick is that you REALLY have to pay attention to the section
headings at the very top of the pages.
Second, Jon can actually write in literate sentences. Try reading Phil
Barker's DBA or DBM rules sometime. Particularly the earlier editions.
Third, those boxes with the shortcuts to the rules are a good addition. You
should see some of the old SPI rule books where they spent a couple of
paragraphs defining polyhedral dice!!! *shudder*
I guess what everyone's saying is that if I find myself in a masochistic mood
soon, an index of SG2 would be... desired?
Allan Goodall awg@sympatico.ca
Goodall's Grotto: http://www.vex.net/~agoodall
"Surprisingly, when you throw two naked women with sex toys into a living room
full of drunken men, things
always go bad." - Kyle Baker, "You Are Here"
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Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 20:36:12 -0600
Subject: Re: rules cheat sheet was Re: Mobile infantry in SG2
From: "Joseph Arnold" <jdarnold@siu.edu>
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Touche. However I did have the caveat "that I've played." I've never played DB
Anything, saw too much text in the rulebooks, and let's face it, who wants to
read all that:P. I guess my main complaint with the GZG books is they are a
little bit hard to navigate. I do appreciate the little grey boxes with the
core rule nuggets, but it is sometimes hard to find the exact rule I need
during a game. Admittedly, I don't play as often as some on the list, so the
books aren't second nature to me. Plus, I haven't even cracked my book since
getting back into college. Let's just say some of the rules seem to be placed
wierdly (at least to me). Jay
----------
> From: Allan Goodall <awg@sympatico.ca>
> On Wed, 06 Dec 2000 20:00:50 -0600, "Joseph Arnold" <jdarnold@siu.edu>
wrote:
> Praise be to Jah! Don't get me wrong, I love the GZG systems, but they
From - Wed Dec 13 16:38:07 2000
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Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 20:45:29 -0600
Subject: Attack Jay Day was Re: rules cheat sheet was Re: Mobile
infantry
in SG2
From: "Jay Arnold" <jdarnold@siu.edu>
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
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Dang, I knew that would lead to trouble. For the record, my Christian name
is Joseph, but I go by Jay (have since changed my e-mail client's
preferfences). My mother and the government call me Joseph.
As far as rewriting DB Anything, any system that measures movement in "paces"
just has to be off. Wierd. Uncanny. Freakish.
In all seriousness, I was working on a con cheat sheet for DS2 that explained
chit pulling, opposed roles, etc. Got about halfway done before I realized I
needed to get my grav tanks finished!
Good jabs at my expense by the way. Please see my previous notes regarding my
feelings on the GZG books (great systems, a little hard to navigate) and the
reasons for such (don't play as often as I'd like, too busy conjugating latin
verbs, reading Aristophanes, etc.). Jay
----------
> From: "Laserlight" <laserlight@quixnet.net>
> On Wed, 06 Dec 2000 20:00:50 -0600, "Joseph Arnold"
From - Wed Dec 13 16:38:07 2000
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From: Michael Brown <mwbrown@veriomail.com>
To: "'gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu'" <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
Subject: RE: Bridge Crew
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 19:01:41 -0800
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Best question today!
Something similar has been run at DunDraCon (San Ramon) and GameCon (Oakland).
This group did it as a multi-media Star Trek game, though all systems
were manual. They had the crew perform tasks in order to see how long it took
(Operation game for the Doctor, Alien Autopsy if the victim was non human, or
a
3d puzzle to repair the drive, etc). A lot of fun, but a lot of work for the
group.
Michael Brown
[quoted original message omitted]