Age and Complexity...
Being in my first real FT game ( thanks Dean), and getting blown away as a
newbe, I would like to hear what you all have to say on a few things... This
is from someone who isn't a real gamer (yet), does enjoy this list, has money
for the rules and toys, is rather into various aspects of SF, but didn't know
miniature SF gaming existed 12 months ago, and has never personally known
anyone who was a 'gamer'. Never seen a game shop, they don't exist here and
never saw one when I lived in Sydney Australia ( I would have only looked in
the period 1972 till about 1977). (Sounds like this could be a large part of
the population to me)
I asked about THE COMPLETE WARGAMES HANDBOOK and with list help, located a
paper copy at powells.com. For those that don't know it, the latest text of
this book, with 1997 additions is on the webgrognards site... I've found the
book very interesting, especially as the paper version I got is the original
1980 edition.
I've also now got all the GZG rules, Babylon 5Wars, StarFleet Battle System,
EFSB, Jovian Chronicles, Ogre Miniatures, the rules systems on the web and a
few Japanese rules system books ( Gundam, Evangelion and what is in a
bimonthly Game Journal here). I couldn't give you much of a comparative review
of them though, not actually having played anything other than FT and Ogre.
Just reading all this stuff is rather interesting, but I've found it very true
what is written in the WARGAME HANDBOOK about rule complexity, age and
available time. Older people want simpler systems and don't have the
time/energy/etc/etc . I also lean more to the miniature/model side
than the playing, partly due to not knowing anyone who actually plays this
stuff, and partly by having quite a few other interests and obligations as
well... the WARGAME HANDBOOK, also mentions that solo play was a major part of
the hobby, and I can understand that too.
Computer games are mostly about solo play, but believe me, I get enough of
computers without spending more time stuck infront of one playing computer
games. Miniatures are so much more appealing and less isolating from your
family..
I have 3 kids, a wife, am a 'SARARI MAN' in a Japanese Corporation, will hit
40 this year ( I can feel middle age crisis creeping up on me already), and
really want to play this stuff ( Pbem and with my 12 year old son, simple FT
and Ogre mainly), but have trouble with what is considered to be even simple
rules.
My kids can play with the miniature tanks, GEVs, starships and mecha on the
landscape or mats perfectly well with out me wanting to organize it with a
goal and rules... and that is probably the way they will get the most use in
the immediate future
So here comes the main part of post folks. My own wants as a customer. There
is lots of talk on this list about generic rules and stuff, ( not supprising,
as it GZG's approach) but I really want defined ships and vehicles and a whole
bunch of scenarios, including easy to hard solo play. The backstory, fiction
and setting is also something I rate rather highly, and makes the whole
package an 'entertainment' form in itself, as well as 'just' a game system.
With out this stuff, it is easier to watch a movie or read a good book, rather
than work out some playable scenario, which I've discovered isn't doable
without experience, CATCH 22.
Any other isolated, middle aged, ( I'm just joking!) would be gamers here
interested in 'simple' SF combat with miniatures that is also suitable for
solo play, and fun in and of itself ( other than Ogre that is)?
I realise that many may disagree with this, but are you 40, with kids yet?
> Adrian Bruce <adrian@rinc.or.jp> wrote:
> Age and Complexity...
<snip, snip>
> So here comes the main part of post folks. My own wants as a
Well, I'll add my 2 cents. These comments are about Full Thrust only, I don't
have time to play the other GZG games. In short I'm amazed at how much
material for Full Thrust exists.
"Defined ship and scenarios" - there are a lot of ships and
scenerios available on web sites. A good starting point to finding them is The
Unoffical Full Thrust WWW Page which can
be found at <http://www.uwm.edu/~cthulhu/FT/index.htm>.
"Backstory, fiction and setting" - the main source for this in
Full Thrust is the various adpation to various settings, such as Babylon 5,
Star Trek, Honor Harrington, etc. In these cases the programs or books provide
all of the background you need. And the web pages provide ships and scenerios.
In the case of Babylon 5 there is also the rules down for the rpg, The Babylon
5 Project, by the author of Full Thrust which is simply an adaptation of Full
Thrust. The material for the role playing game itself can provide the
background, though so far no scenerios.
There is also a couple of new settings that can be found on web pages, though
there is not a lot of info. about them. One of these is to provide a setting
similar to the World War II in the Pacific.
"Solo play" - I have seen nothing for this. In fact I suspect
that there is very little material for solo play in wargames in general other
than a few games that were designed for solo play. There are no spaceship
combat games that I can recall for solo play. I do a lot of playing by email
instead of solo play. Too bad your ship didn't last longer in our current
email game, but there will be more email games sooner or later.
"CATCH 22" - well the best way I know of to get around this is
to design scenerios anyway, try them out, and next time you'll do a bit
better. It won't take too long before you get decent at it. If you have a
thick skin, post the scenerios and you'll get a lot of useful feedback.
<snip>
> I realise that many may disagree with this, but are you 40, with kids
I'm 49 with 2 kids. Yes "real life" can get in the way of game playing. How
old are your kids? My son while in high school, he is now in college, enjoyed
playing the games with me. My daughter, age 11, also enjoys playing games
though she tends to prefer Robo Rally and The Great Kahn Game to my favorites
of Full Thrust and Go. Actually you can't predict what kids will be interested
in. If they like the same games you do, great. If not, oh well.
Good luck. If you want to play a one on one email game of Full Thrust, I'm
interested.
Enjoy,
> Adrian Bruce wrote:
> Age and Complexity...
Hi, Adrian,
I'm 35 with my son approaching his first birthday. I work in software
development where 80-hour work weeks are not uncommon. I think we're
pretty much in the same boat when it comes to carving out available gaming
time. If I can play once a month, I'm pretty jazzed about it. While Miles is
nowhere near ready to play games with his dad just yet, I'm already
re-shaping my game collection to concentrate on things he might like
someday, including miniatures games like Full Thrust.
Where we differ is in our gaming experience... I'm a gamer from way back,
which gives me an advantage when it comes to deciphering rules systems. I
agree that on balance, the older I've gotten, the more attracted I am to
simpler games... but I've also made an investment in more complex games during
my gaming career, and it isn't too difficult for me to keep up to speed with
them playing once every couple months or so (example: Advanced Squad Leader...
a game I would NEVER get into for the first time at my
age, but which I've played in various forms since 1979 -- with most of
the learning curve mounted, it's pretty easy for me to stay on top of this
terribly complex game, and I still find it rewarding, even with limited time
to play).
For me, at least, the Full Thrust rules (and Ogre, for that matter) are at the
low end of game complexity. Admittedly, I'm a gamer, and I'm accustomed to
deciphering the wargame "code." Even the simplest game rules operate on the
assumption that the reader has some background in gaming, which can make for a
baffling experience for a newbie. It's one of the limitations of our hobby
that it's practically impossible to get started without a mentor on hand to
guide you through even an "introductory" set of rules. Bad news, but there you
have it.
That having been said... if FT interests you at all, I encourage you to stay
with it, and make a study of the rules. Set aside a couple hours a week and
work through them until you've internalized the game, and made it your own. At
that point, you can teach the game to your kid, and the two of you can enjoy
it together (which I think would be a great thing to do
with your child). This _will_ require more effort than watching a movie
or reading a good book, but that's the price of entry to the hobby. It's not a
passive activity.
Notwithstanding the above -- I agree with you, Adrian, that a book of
tested, reasonably balanced scenarios for Full Thrust (including systems
displays for all participating ships) would be a welcome volume on my shelf.
I've played FT maybe three or four times, each time using a scenario from the
rules, and had a great time, but for all that I've enjoyed the game, we've
haven't gotten back to it in months because we just haven't had time to cook
up a scenario. Of course, nothing is
stopping us from throwing a half-dozen identical ships on the table and
just having at it, but if I'm going to spend my one, precious gaming day a
month playing Full Thrust, I'd much rather play a scenario with unequal
forces, where the mission or the victory conditions provide for balance and
unique, flavorful twist that will engage my imagination (something that
doesn't happen for me with two identical fleets smashing into each other in
deep space).
Even if you had such a book in hand, you'd still have to work at hacking the
rules. It can be daunting, but you've got a great resource for rules questions
and support via this list, and FT is a wonderful game (clearly worth the
effort). I encourage you to set aside all the other rules sets you mention,
paint up a dozen or so starships, work at mastering the basic rules of Full
Thrust, and joining us in the wonderful gaming hobby. Few pursuits will reward
your investment of time so well. I know from experience that passive
experiences like watching movies and such don't stick with me nearly so long
or so well as a solid afternoon of wargaming with friends.
Good luck. Don't give up.
--P
While I (37) like playing easy games, simple stupid doesn't really appeal to
me very much. I like to have a little complexity. However, I also buy wargames
that I never play but enjoy reading the rules, even the very complex ones.
Something to do with more money than time.....
I'm getting really curious as to what most of the people in this list
does for gaming - other than GZG, of course...
ME: 26 (27 in April), Married, and no children. I haven't played
any GZG games yet, but I'm doing a fair bit of actual wargaming - the
real thing. I'm doing (face to face) The Longest Day (Avalon Hill), (PBeM)
Napoleon and East Front (both by Columbia Games). I'm trying to get a campaign
of Afrika (The Gamers) going, and I kinda want to start doing Tunisia (The
Gamers) solo or FtF, so that I can tackle Enemy at the Gates or DAK later
on...
I still do some RPG's semi regularly, my favorite being Harnmaster, but
playing whatever is available. And miniatures, well, none yet. My first
experience will be at Con of the North
( http://www.real-time.com/~cotn/ ), but I'm even using green army
men and some toys (Robotech/Exo-squad Combat Walkers, Micro Machines
medium-sized Starship Troopers ships, and some European models for
the French AMX-10P APC...).
Am I the exception? Should I get a couple kids to better match the average GZG
gamer profile?
I'm 33 with two kids, 5 and 3. My son can't wait to play games with me, and we
do play some, like Battle Masters, simple homebrew skirmish stuff (everybody
can move 6" and hits on 4, 5, or 6), and Heroquest (my wife and son play the
characters, my daughter plays with the dice). I've done some roleplaying with
my son when he was 3, and
should do it again--we'll try Star Wars sometime.
I definitely prefer simpler rules, and that gets more so as time goes by.
That's mostly because I don't have the desire to learn another system, not
because I have trouble doing it. The wargame I play most often is Epic 40K,
and its core rules are more complex than the old Space Marine (maybe
comparable to DS II), though the extensions of Space Marine made it more
complicated. I have to make myself try to be interested when a gaming friend
wants to try a new game, purely because I have so many I want to play, and
don't want to spend time learning another. I'd like to play Epic, Dirtside II
(mostly to see how it feels compared to Epic 40K), Full Thrust, Stargrunt II
(still on order at the hobby shop), and probably
more. Plus there are board games, regular family games, ping-pong
(when I get all that terrain off my table), and peek-a-boo and ring-
around-the-rosy. :-) (At least the last two don't take so long!)
We play a lot of games at my house.
I do wonder if there will be an end to this hobby, when I can't find anyone my
age to play. Most of the people I know are from work (I don't know any gamers
there) or church (don't think many would be interested). The two guys I'm
playing games with now are both younger than me, so maybe I've got some time
while they're available. But when I'm older and my kids are gone, and I have
more time on my hands, will I be able to find an opponent? I can't see playing
a solo game. I like computer games, but keep away from them to try to not let
gaming take me away from social contact. I've got Ambush! (except I don't have
the rulebook), and I've thought about having that set up on a table and play a
turn every now and then, but I just don't want to play by myself.
Anyway, I relate to some of your issues. Certainly, playing with your kids is
a great thing to do. I remember my father not understanding the roleplaying I
was doing in high school at all, and he only made brief attempts at trying it.
He doesn't like to step outside of what he understands, though intelligent. I
may have the same problem if
my kids turn into athletes, though. :-) But I know to try to be
involved in their interests, and to try to share interests, anyway.
I have seen that I get bored really quickly playing the way my son does. Kids
don't need rules, as I think Adrian was saying. They just drive around the
tanks making engine noises and shooting sounds. That's all they need. My son
does enjoy playing a game, as well as just playing with toys, though.
I'm really rambling on now. Better quit.
> Andy Skinner wrote:
Snip!
> Anyway, I relate to some of your issues. Certainly, playing with your
I tried various games Rpg/Wargames on my dad too... The only one he
actually liked was TWERPS! Can't get much simpler than that...
Snipage!
> I'm really rambling on now. Better quit.
Excerpts from FT: 22-Jan-98 Re: Age and Complexity by Andy
Skinner@avs.com
> I'm 33 with two kids, 5 and 3.
Cute kids, too, though I haven't seen 'em in a while. ^_^
Anyway, down to my main point in this post (I'm only 22, no kids, no GF, so I
don't *quite* have the same worries as most of ya!):
> I do wonder if there will be an end to this hobby, when I can't find
You might try asking around hobby shops in the area about gaming clubs. I
don't think you ever got the the Eastern Pennsylvania Gaming Society,
but there were certainly a lot of older guys there -- mostly historical
gamers, but that seems to be a general rule for PA anyway. (Or eastern
PA, maybe. Or maybe someone'll just flame me, whatever. ^_^ ) I don't
quite remember where you are (my mind is thinking either Massachusetts or
Connecticut...) but you might just sit down with a yellow pages and
call around, or else do some web searching -- that's how I found the
EPGS in the first place.
And that's my contribution to a side issue.... ^_^
> ME: 26 (27 in April), Married, and no children. I haven't played
Well, if I hafta skew things in the other direction...
35, single, no kids.
And I know a few of you out there are single/no kids, too. ;-)
Mk
> On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Alfredo Lorente wrote:
> Am I the exception? Should I get a couple kids to better match the
Greeting All:)
On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Ever snore so loudly you wake yourself? Isn't that
> the stupidest thing? wrote:
Close -- I'm 34, married, no kids.
I spend every Sunday painting miniature figures, and my wife appreciates the
atmosphere it creates in the apartment. There's something nice about doing
creative work for a long period of time (it certainly makes me
happy!).
> On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Andy Skinner wrote:
I'm 27, single with no kids. However there is such a spread between myself and
my 2 siblings (who are 10 and 13) that I can give a few hints
about wargaming with kids. My little brother is easy -- he has an
analytical and curious mind like I was at his age and dives right in to just
about any wargame I put in front of him. In fact he tends to know the rules
better than I do within a week.;) My sister's more difficult, though she does
play Warhammer fantasy and is starting an interest in Battletech. No interest
in Full Thrust, though.
BTW, both Full Thrust and Battletech are great intro wargames for kids. The
base rules are simple (Battletech gets complex in the special case situations)
and can be played with control over only a couple of units. I've noticed that
my siblings tend to get frustrated when there are too many units to think
about. I've also noticed that the kids tend to like
what they know -- the Star Wars and Star Trek backgrounds get alot of
interest. In fact I could probably get my sister to play Full Thrust if I deal
with cleaning up the pile of FASA Star Trek minis I've accumulated.
> I do wonder if there will be an end to this hobby, when I can't find
Actually church may not be such a bad place to find wargamers -- gamers
can be reverant too (contrary to what the media at times and certain radicals
might want us to believe). Two of the people in my saturday
group are regular chuch goers. You may just have to find the sci-fi
fans there to gather interest in a wargame.
> But when I'm older and my kids are gone, and I have more time on my
I doubt it would be a problem. Game clubs are the best source for finding
opponents. There will probably always be historical wargaming and there are
some really fun systems out there (I'm starting my first foray into
historicals with Tactica, an ancients miniatures system).
> Alfredo Lorente wrote:
Well, if you can get 'em cheap, it might be a good idea. I haven't seen any
for sale on the net, but maybe you could try one of the discount mail order
places. Sounds like a few kids to go with your other miniatures might work
well together. On the other hand, you'd have to share your toys.
I can't remember if GW makes any kids that might be usable with your other
miniatures, but I wouldn't suggest getting any from them. I think they're all
part of the Chaos line, though there may be some rug rats in their Skaven.
(Mine sometimes act like Orks.)
GZG's kids are generic, so they don't necessarily fit any preconceived notions
of what kids should be. They're also have more realistic
child-like proportions. If you're going to do any low-tech
games, try to find some kids made for a fantasy line. Really good kids are
definitely fantasy.
Please remember that kids will change in scale the longer you keep them. Mine
were probably the right scale for GZG's space ships early
on, were inline with 1/300 soon after. By the time they were delivered,
actually, they were way too big to use with 25mm games. I wanted to send them
back, but my wife, who normally has only a minimal interest in miniatures,
wanted to keep 'em. I still haven't primed or painted them, but their color
seems to be a blend of the colors used on my wife and myself, and seems
appropriate, so I just leave them as is.
Actually, I do the skewing: single, with kid. ;->=
She lives in another state, though.
The_Beast
For what it's worth, if the profile of FT/SGII/DSII players is of
interest:
28, single, male, software specialist, background of 17 years gaming (starting
in RPGs, added boardgames and minifigs). I've played about
20+ rpgs, as many boardgames and as many miniatures rules in my time
in the gaming world. Have plenty of other hobbies so only get to game about
twice or three times a month.
As for the question of should one get kids to play GZG games? I hardly think
it is a requirement. Kids are great for many reasons, but I think one can play
GZG and other companies products without having kids. (Either that or I'm some
kind of heretic!)
:) Tom.
/************************************************
Well I'm Carlos Lourenco, married with a four month old son, BUT I have a
number of young godchildren, nephews blah blah. It's funny one who is 8, I
played a little computer battletech with once. then He saw my mini collection
and I gave hiim a quick overview of how games are played. For
his birthday I gave him two boxes of Tamaya 1/72d scale WW2 infantry
that I hand painted (Germans and US). At Christmas, as he was leaving for
home, I gave him a painted Ultramarine. So then last week I'm talking to his
Mom on the phone. He won't go anywhere without his Ultramarine. He's showing
his friends.
"Man look at the detail on this space marine! It even has grass. My Uncle
Carlos made it! He's realy cool. He's 37 but can relate and think like an 8
year old. (Geez don' know if that's a compliment or not <g>). And money is No
object!" (well I don't know about that.)
Anyway he had a friend over and these two 8 year olds had made up their own
wargame with all their toy soldiers. You role one D6 and the number is how
many guys of the enemy you get to kill. Wow hows that for simple. Of course I
right away sent him a page of suggested erratta.
I play some boardgames too, mostly either ASL or some Clash of Arms Napoleanic
games. I also do Napoleanic minis, Epic, FT, DS and now I picked up SG. Fpr
many years I games alone, ythough I did get my wife into the occasional
wargame and even a miniatures Napoleanic game once, which we had fun doingh.
However I have recently discovered that where I live, Connecticut, USA is a
virtual MECCA for wargaming and I joined the local club. In fact we just had a
big CON, Crusades 98, where there was a bunch of Full Thrust being played. So
now I'm happy!
> Andy Skinner wrote:
> actually, they were way too big to use with 25mm games. I wanted to
Be advised that most kids can not be based either. I have yet to see a glue
that will hold them in place for more than a few seconds.
Well, I'm 40, divorced, no children, but am engaged to a charming lady.
I have a massive collection of SF wargames, alas, most have seen only solo
play.
I used to do a lot of Champions RPG, but not so much
On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Ever snore so loudly you wake yourself? Isn't that
> the stupidest thing? wrote:
> >Am I the exception? Should I get a couple kids to better match the
Yeah... 20 years old, not married, no kids and none planned. And I'm not
getting tired of complicated game systems, just not being able to finish the
games. I want something with playability, and GZG is it.
In a message dated 98-01-22 20:11:56 EST, you write:
Winchell Chung:
> I used to do a lot of Champions RPG, but not so much<
I know that feeling..... Ran Champs most of 12 years, but Played only 2 games
:)
> Greeting All :)
(Idea bulb appears above head...)
Player Locations with a little bit about the player.... hmmm...
Anyway, to jump on the bandwagon (hell, everyone else is doing it)...
Jeremy Sadler. 26 (27 this year), single (defacto with a wonderful woman),
no kids. Work for a power company - started in the field, now in the
office. Started gaming as a child with chess. Started "serious" gaming in my
first year of High School, when I was introduced to Basic D&D (D&D and serious
gaming in the same sentence?). From there I gobbled up every RPG I could
find... Gamma World, Traveller (loved and still love that game), Cthulhu,
Twilight:2000, AD&D, Shadowrun, Earthdawn, Cyberpunk. "Drifted" into
miniatures gaming (originally as an aside to RPGing) and then, several years
into my working life, drifted AWAY from RPGing. Played Modern Micro a LOT, ACW
for some time, played Epic for a while, got disillusioned with the whole idea
(the influence of the Evil Empire(TM)) and left all gaming behind for a
while... until, while in casual convo with a friend who gamed, happend to
mention I wanted something easy and friendly and he showed me FT. Grabbed it,
loved it, grabbed SG, loved it even more. Tried to pick up RPGing again but
just found my heart wasn't in it. Miniatures are what I love.
SO
supportive, as long as I don't spend TOO much time doing it (and not enough
time with her <grin>)...
Phew. What a babble on for the list...:)
At 11:13 1/22/98, "Ever snore so loudly you wake yourself? Isn't that
the
> stupide wrote:
Same here. 29, single, no kids. 2 cats... but the closest they've managed to
get to minatures wargaming is knocking a platoon of M60A1s off a shelf (that
was thought to be beyond their jumping range) and bending up all the cannon.
(Other people might also wonder, so that's why I'm responding to the
list - If anybody disagrees with my opinions, and wants to talk about
them, let's take it out of the list, since this message is already
verging on unrelated to the topic/mission of the list...)
> >> I haven't played any GZG games yet, but I'm doing a fair bit of
Well, for once, it isn't historical. Notice I referred to it as
WARgaming. Tho', to be honest, if the miniature game isn't of a
historical battle, I can't refer to it as wargaming either. Speculation,
perhaps, but if you toss Wellington and his men into an Austerlitz miniatures
battle, well, it is a wargame in the most loose sense of the term. For me, a
wargame has to simulate a historical event, or a historical possibility (what
if we had done
Anvil/Dragoon? What if the Egyptians had decided NOT to attack once
they got across the Suez in '73?).
Some people call this ConSim (and it took me a while to realize that it stood
for Conflict Simulation). I think that is a haughty,
I'm-better-than-you name. But I also realize that while the Columbia
Games block games are the best wargames out there to simulate the stresses of
Command and Control and Military Intelligence (or lack of it...), I find
myself hard pressed at times to call them wargames because these games don't
have the 2240 counters Enemy at the Gates does... That is a problem in the
hobby at large, and is even more
off-topic than the bulk of the message...
Again, anything else on this topic should be mailed privately to me.
In a message dated 98-01-22 10:05:31 EST, you write:
Me: 41, Married 17 years (she does play) with a 16 year old son. My kid
started playing when he was 7. We still game once in a while, but things have
fallen off since he began the great girl/car quest. I figure he return
to the fold when hes about 24.
> I haven't played any GZG games yet, but I'm doing a fair bit of
I gotta ask: what makes you think GZG is not real wargaming? Not trying to be
antagonistic, just curious.
In a message dated 98-01-22 13:24:23 EST, you write:
<< I can't remember if GW makes any kids that might be usable with your other
miniatures, but I wouldn't suggest getting any from them. I think they're all
part of the Chaos line, though there may be some rug rats in their Skaven.
(Mine sometimes act like Orks.) >>
Kids must be GW character models. You can tell by how much they cost.
On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Ever snore so loudly you wake yourself? Isn't that
> the stupidest thing? wrote:
> And I know a few of you out there are single/no kids, too. ;-)
Darn, they found us out.:) 31, single, no kids.
> Shld Wulf wrote:
Ditto here. I've been running Champions (and the other incarnations of HERO)
since it came out in 198(1?), but since '85 it's almost always been as GM.
On Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:02:24 +0000, "Alfredo Lorente"
> <alfredo@exodus.bitstream.net> wrote:
> Am I the exception? Should I get a couple kids to better match the
That won't do it. I'm 35 and I match the GZG profile quite well. I've been
married for over 12 years but we don't have any kids.
I think it's an age thing. I run a game of Call of Cthulhu each Christmas
where the players play themselves. 4 years ago, the game ran over two days.
This year we were all kind of bagged after one day. I think as you get older
your stamina for longer games starts to drop.
Also, things aren't as new as they used to be. I've been wargaming for 22
years, and I just got tired of long, drawn out games that have to be packed
away just as they get interesting. I used to love games that would take 6 to 8
hours to finish. Now I'm looking at games that are over in an hour or two as a
better bet. It's easier to fit into our schedule, and after two hours we still
have a lot of time left, we can play it again or just sit down and gab for a
couple of hours.
Funny enough, I'm gaming more NOW than I've ever done. However, it's mostly
roleplaying. Roleplaying is more of a social thing with our group. I'd
personally prefer to do more miniatures gaming, but I can't complain.
> Feral wrote:
Age 39, Married, no kids, 2 dogs. Started playing with a copy of the Donald
Featherstone rules in 1971. Later involved in school wargames
club (_Strictly_ historical and pre-20th century, run by the History
department). Gamed throughout High School, Paragon WW1 air combat, "NORAD" the
old boardgame, Fletcher Pratt Naval since 1972, GHQ microarmour since 1973,
D&D since 1976.
Last 5 games: Full Thrust (SF Miniatures) Competition, Full Thrust, Armageddon
(SF Boardgame), Epic 40K (Science Fantasy 6mm), Advanced D&D.
Hmmm... time I did something historical again...
> Age 38, Married, no kids, 6 cats, 2 dogs. Started playing AH board
> Shld Wulf wrote:
> Winchell Chung:
> Rand C.
All you champions types look in the front of the book, if you have an early
enough edition, I'll be listed as a play tester.
Bye for now,
> Alfredo Lorente wrote:
...Snip...(JTL)
> > I gotta ask: what makes you think GZG is not real wargaming? Not
...Snap!!!..(JTL)
> Again, anything else on this topic should be mailed privately to me.
Alfredo,
There is no such thing as historical gaming! If one did
historical gaming one would know the outcome of the battle
because it is historical and cannot be changed. Historical
gaming would have no following because everything is pre-
determined and presents no challenge or enjoyment for the persons
participating. (Please note that 'Ancients' portrays itself as historical, but
when did the Aztec Empire fight the Romans, or perhaps the Crusaders against
Japan, Ect..
No offence intended, just a point of view.
Bye for now,
> On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, John Leary wrote:
As this seems to be becoming a survey, I thought I would put in my two cents.
37 (38 in March), married, 2 kids (5,3)
Finally have room to game, too bad those I game with live 30-50 miles
away. Gaming since the mid 60's (a cousin gave my brother a cpy of AH
Gettysburg). DnD in the 1st 3 book set, Traveller when it first came out, etc.
Now mostly GZG, Command Decision (All periods) ACW, Napoleonics, etc. I seem
to collect rules and hybridize usinng the good parts.
My impression of the members of the list have changed since this survey.
For the better, of course!
I'm 39, married, three children (10, 7, and 4)
Triplanetary was my first science-fiction game and I have
been hooked since. Alien Space was also a favorite. I still remember opening
the Metagaming envelope and seeing a tiny packet drop out with our favorite
cybernetic tank on the front. Ahh, the memories...
> Winchell Chung wrote:
Actually it was very interesting, with the rules in flux on a week to week
basis, I feel that I have rewritten the same character more times than some
people have characters in thier collection. (and some times it really wasn't
much fun.)
Bye for now,
Well...seeing as how everone else is chippin in.....
Age 20 No partner to speak of.... siiighhhh...... Definitely no kids, not even
a pet!
As for the gaming, started out wargaming with the Evil Empire.. (I know) but I
grew out of that, although I don't mind the odd game now and then, with
appropriate house rules of course (i.e. no 'named' super characters) Still buy
some of their miniatures to paint, when I am in a weaker mood of course!
Branched out into other games, generally with an SF bent, eg. Centurion,
Battletech etc.
I am also lucky enough to live in a house in which everyone games, either RPG
or Wargames, plus the house next door does as well... so fortunately finding
players is not a real problem, space on the other hand.......
Spaceship fleet/capital ship games are a favourite, something about them
gets me... plus I am quite willing to spend money getting rules just to look
at them. So far I have found Full Thrust to be the best game in terms of pure
enjoyment, although on occassion I like the complexity of say B5 Wars. Having
read some of the stuff on this list, Stargrunt and Dirtside are definitely
high on the priority list!
Well, that's about all I have to say, cyas.
> Kevin Walker wrote:
> BTW, does anyone remember the name of the Metagame that involved
Rivets.
my turn...
newly turned 21 year old college student, wonderful girlfriend, no kids
got started on AD&D in Jr.high, played that for many years untill i discovered
shadowrun in early high school, moved on to torg, shatterzone, star wars, and
various flavours of white wolf games...
as for minitures...my forst taste was with space hulk, which i still think is
a pretty cool game (tho i haven't seen the latest edition yet) branched from
there into W40K, I distinctly remember my last game of w40k, when my main
battle tank went on a rampage thu the massed ork ranks before coming to a stop
next to the ork general where it promptly leveled its main cannon at him and
fired at point blank range...failing to even injure him...i left in disgust.
during this time i was forever searching for a tactical starship combat game
like FT, and after a few failed attempts to write my own, i finally heard of
FT and took a chance on buying the rules...lets just say that i'm really
pleased with the result. Also bought SG2 and DS2 cause of the author, tho i
haven't played either of them yet. never got into historicals and swore off
CCGs all together (tho the babylon 5 one is starting to make me reconsider my
vow never to buy another CCG ever agian)
later
> My impression of the members of the list
[snip]
Seconded. This has been a very enlightening thread, and it is particularly
interesting to note that a large proportion (of those who replied, anyway) are
thirtysomethings who have been gaming for many years.
One thing that has come up (ref: Alfredo's recent posts) is that the term
"wargaming" seems to mean slightly different things either side of the big
pond. I gather many US gamers refer to board wargames (ie
maps-and-counters
Hi, So nice to see I am not the only 'Old Anorak' Age 38, married with one
kid, finance analyst with big US computer Company (HAL!)
First wargaming for me was in the early 70's with Paragons WW1 Air Combat
rules, Then found things like Alien Space and the wonderful Sea Strike.
Got into board gaming with early SPI games, into Sci-Fi Board games with
SPI's Starforce Alpha Centauri. Living in Nottingham, saw a number of my
friends join Games Workshop, dallied with them in late 80's early 90's, did
mucho playtesting and some freelance designing for the Evil Empire. Designed
and self published a Modern Day Air Combat system called 'Sidewinder'
Mid-90's discovered Full Thrust..............the rest is history.
I wasn't on the list when this thread first started, but I thought I'd add my
name to the roster:
Age: 24 (just), co-habitating with partner (ooh - a sin!), one son (1yr
on
the 30th Jan - Happy Birthday Cullen!).
Started playing AD&D and 40K (arghhh!) about 1989, still playing AD&D (DM for
8 years), but branched out into Call of Cthulhu and Magic the Gathering (is
that branching OUT?!?!). I stopped playing 40K after spending more time
arguing small, pedantic rules than playing the game and having to take out a
second mortgage to pay for the figures. Also, GW have become too
'cliquey' - "You have to play our games, with our figures and no other"
(it sounds like it'll become a religious cult!). At our club, we have a lot of
teenagers who play 40K, and it's difficult to persuade them to play something
else. SGII is very popular at the moment amongst us 'older' (relatively)
gamers. I must say that, although the SGII rules are, in and of themselves,
quite simple, they can cover any circumstance and thus are extremely elegant.
At the moment, we are doing a campaign involving Daleks Vs. Humans,
incorporating almost every time period imaginable. This is one of the
strengths of SGII: the fact that you can have almost any type of army and
incorporate it.
> Feral wrote:
<snip and ditto above> Age 38, Married, no kids, 6 cats, 2 dogs. Started
playing AH board
games in the mid-70's. Started playing MicroArmor, D&D and other mini
based games in 1976.
On Sun, 25 Jan 1998 11:20:11 +0000, jon@gzero.dungeon.com (Ground Zero
> Games) wrote:
> IMHO, whether done with figures or counters, on terrain or map,
I have to agree with Jon on this one. Even though I grew up in Canada, I've
always used this definition of the type of games I play. Maybe it's due to the
old Featherstone and Grant books that I grew up with (they were the only books
I could find on wargaming because they were in the library).
Two other points:
1) Peter Perl's _The Art of Wargaming_ and Jim Dunnigans' _The
Complete Wargames Handbook_ use the same definition as Jon and I.
2) There is a third definition of wargaming: paintball games. I've heard a lot
of people call paintball games "wargaming" in spite of the fact that it
simulates virtually no true form of warfare. The tactics are often modern, but
the ranges are Napoleonic! I've mentioned to a number of people that I play
wargames and they say, "Oh, you mean like out in the woods with paint guns?" I
answer, "I've done that, but that's paintball. Wargames are..." (insert
definition here).
On Sun, 25 Jan 1998 01:09:50 +1000, Alan E & Carmel J Brain
> <aebrain@dynamite.com.au> wrote:
> Age 39, Married, no kids, 2 dogs. Started playing with a copy of the
Hmm. It appears that I haven't given my own wargaming "curriculum vitae".
Age 35, married (12 years), no kids, one dog. Started wargaming when I was
about 11. I graduated from playing with GI Joe Action Team figures to wargames
with the help of some old Airfix Napoleonic highlanders versus a mixed bag of
French using some atrociously simple rules. (I was outnumbered but my opponent
came at me in three waves; I won.) From there I graduated to Featherstone's
and Grant's books, mainly because they were the only books I could get. My
first board game was
_Panzer Leader_ which I got for my 13th birthday. Two years later I
played my first game of D&D. The game I play most often right now is some
variation of Call of Cthulhu, as that's what my social group is into.
Well here's my stats:
29 years old. 1 Goddaughter (1 year old), 1 Aussie Shepard/ Irish Setter
Mix (11 years old (that's 77 to you and me...)). Committed relationship
involving co-habitation, sliding inexorably towards marriage :) Great,
fun woman who I can occasionally drag into playtesting various homebrew
systems and or FT but who only really likes playing in my C'o'Cthulhu games.
Old buddies in my gaming group (we've been gaming together for 15 years, yikes
!) we play Spelljammer, the occasional FT, D2 once in a while, and my very
infrequent C'o'C games.
I started out buying mini's (Superior's Starfleet Wars, MAATAC and RAATAC
mostly...) at a local store in SoCal around age 9 or 10 and recieved both the
First Starter Edition of D&D (bloo book) and AH Tactics II for Xmas in '80 or
so.... Thus guaranteeing my schitzoid development as a gamer. I've worked in
both the retail and development parts of the hobby professionally and semi
professionally, managing game
stores and promoting games by building 3-d gaming environments.
Too much lead, no time to paint, too many eclectic interests (both real life
and gaming) but the few games I make time for are GZG 'cause they're quick and
fun, fun, fun. Working the hours I work requires that the games I choose be as
fun and accessible as possible and GZG fits the bill perfectly.
I find the demographics of the list quite interesting. And have to note that
some of the nicest most helpful and generally tolerant folks I've seen reside
here on the GZG list.the flames are few, the topics are generally interesting,
and the willingness to provide a clear, honest opinion is outstanding. We are
all mature adults (not necessarily chronologically....) and act accordingly. I
have to say that this list is the only real gaming resource I actively
monitor. Worthwhile folks, engaging in stimulating discussion, hey sounds
great to me!
Gene
27, single, no kids. I started playing wargames when I came home from school
one day and found that my brother had taken
over the kitchen table with this huge, great-looking map with little
counters on it. That was SPI's "War of the Ring". That led to their
Starship Troopers, then I picked up role-playing, and it's been
down hill ever since.
On Sun, 25 Jan 1998 09:47:42 -0800, "George,Eugene M"
> <Eugene.M.George@kp.ORG> wrote:
> 29 years old. 1 Goddaughter (1 year old), 1 Aussie Shepard/ Irish
I noticed that when roleplaying is mentioned amongst GZG players, Call of
Cthulhu seems to be the predominant game. Isn't that strange? (Or not. If you
got into roleplaying in the early to mid 1980s but were looking for a "mature"
game, CoC was pretty much it.)
On Sun, 25 Jan 1998 13:20:47 -0500, Robert Crawford <crawford@iac.net>
wrote:
> That was SPI's "War of the Ring". That led to their
Minor correction: Avalon Hill did _Starship Troopers_. They have a new
version out (as well as old stock in the old version) based on the film. No
matter what you might think of the film, the new version appears to be fast
paced (15 to 60 minutes per scenario) and a lot of fun.
All right then, here goes...
Age 32 (soon to advance by a year) who spends too much of his time
designing and developing Macintosh Applications for a living - engaged
and she was into playing (& painting) minis before we met (wahoooooo!) -
no kids - nine small, furred or quilled mammals.
To go along with the standard beginnings here, I started off by D&D in 1975 or
76. Graduated to WWII micro armor in 79. Since then I've collected a number of
Mini systems, Boardgames, and RPGs in the intervening years.
Last games include: Full Thrust, DS2, AH Titan, Empire in Arms, GURPS, WH40K
(I'd have rather played SG2 believe me), and Magic the Gathering.
I know what you all are going to say about the Evil Empire (tm), and MtG
- let me explain. The WH40K is the only minis game going in town (only
once every couple of months anyway). My fiancee, her brother, and his
girlfriend all play. Beside... most of my cards were free and I've witness
that game go from being an idea in Richard Garfield's mind to crude drawings
and photocopies on card stock to a product that's done well.
BTW, does anyone remember the name of the Metagame that involved Robots going
around shooting at each other, only to need reprogramming at a crucial moment?
On Sun, 25 Jan 98 15:05:36 -0600, Kevin Walker <sage@millcomm.com>
wrote:
> BTW, does anyone remember the name of the Metagame that involved Robots
> going around shooting at each other, only to need reprogramming at a
The Metagaming game you are thinking of is _Rivets_.
All right, I'll bite...I was avoiding this thread, but I'm outnumbered...I
surrender...
19, came into mini gaming with a cousin's copy of FT, bought DS2, recently
bought SG2. Did the Munchkin:the Addiction thing in junior high, got out...was
tempted by the Evil Empire at various times, never had enough cash (why did
they drop ManOWar, anyway? Looked cool..) so GZG was my intro to mini gaming.
Have also got into 15mm fantasy (Hordes of the Things), am avoiding the
temptation to get 'just one more' mini system. (FR!, in my case...)
Do some RPGing (Rolemaster 'Viking" theme campaign at the moment) and a bit of
board wargaming (WiF FE)...read alot of SF and Fantasy...great fan of David
Drake, similar military SF...influences my take on DS2 and SG2.
This is more about me than you probably wanted to know...tough:) I didn't
start this thread. Interesting, tho.
> Allan Goodall wrote:
Oops. You're right.
Come to think of it, does anyone know if they still make the original version?
Suppose I'll chime in as well. 28, single, no kids, US Army paratrooper.
Started with D&D when I was 12, then was introduced to Panzer Leader at 13
which started my interest in wargames as well as RPG's. Starship Troopers
followed closely after. I started getting seriously interested in minitures
gaming at GenCon '95 when I was introduced to Full Thrust and Dirtside II.
> Brian wrote:
> All right, I'll bite...I was avoiding this thread, but I'm
So was/am I. Ah well...
> Have also got into 15mm fantasy (Hordes of the
Stop avoiding it, but wait 'til the next edition of FR! comes out (shouldn't
be too long now, though). You can use all your HotT units for FR!, but since
all 15mm FR! units should be based on 40*40 mm bases you may want to stick
temporary FR! bases under the HotT elements. That's what I do
<g>
And yes, FR! is better than HotT. Similar, but better.
And now for myself: 25 years old, no SO, no kids, no pets (lead elephants and
dragons don't count, do they?). Started playing the local RPG (which has now
evolved into Chronopia) some 13 years ago; that lead to tin soldiers, which in
turn lead to WRG 7th edition, which lead to wargaming in
general - preferrably pre-1500 or SF. Somewhere along the line I picked
up Starfire and Full Thrust, with known results. I firmly believe in the old
saying "when you run out of unpainted lead, you die". Therefore I'm
somewhat of a squirrel - especially when it comes to starship models...
Nowadays I play Starfire, Full Thrust, DBM, FR!, Epic40K and DSII; none of
them as often as I'd like to. The main reason I don't have time to play is
that I'm glued to a computer writing mails like this one :-/ Being a
Starfire developer doesn't help either - but it does provide me with a
never-ending stream of new situations to battle out!
Later,
Well to add my thruppence...
I'm 23, single (its not all its cracked up to be) and got into wargaming
through roleplaying MERP. Roleplaying just didn't do much for me so I
discovered wargaming through Machiavelli (essentially medieval diplomacy).
I've played many an Avalon Hill and SPI game in my time and managed to avoid
the GW curse. I found 2300AD, Renegade legion, and Starfire to be my main
interest in gaming. Then I found FT and since then life has been far more
expensive as well as complex. FT is the first minuature game that has ever
encouraged me to buy and paint figures. Its the best game I have played in
recent years. All we need now is a few good expansions on the system. Its
quite nice as it is though.
> On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Allan Goodall wrote:
> I noticed that when roleplaying is mentioned amongst GZG players, Call
Well, I was into CoC, but my first game wasn't D&D, it was *Empire of the
Petal Throne*!!!
I quickly mastered it and was the game master of my local jr.high school.
Later, when I encountered D&D I found it strangely simplistic. I didn't
realize what a monster of complexity EotPT was, I though *all* RPGs were like
that. EotPT still has a warm spot in my heart, and I enjoyed reading the two
novels.
One of the more fun (but more abusive of the rules) was my brother's "mascot".
He was playing a magic user. One fine day, in a dungeon, he got an enchanted
weapon as a treasure. <roll> Ah, a dagger, you can use it... <roll> Humph, it
is intelligent.... <roll>... one spell... <roll>...flying?
He named it "Dag". It would perch on his shoulder, until a monster appeared.
"Sic 'um, Dag!"
Dag would say "Yeah, boss.." and fly at the monster. Dag would then say, "I'll
write my name in the monster.... D!! A!!! awwwww, made a mistake, gotta erase
it..." SLASH! SLASH! SLASH!!
* A B S I T * I N V I D I A * V E R B O ** I D E M * S O N A N S *
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----+
| WINCHELL CHUNG
http://www.clark.net/pub/nyrath/home.html |
| Nyrath the nearly wise
nyrath@clark.net |
+---_---+---------------------[ SURREAL SAGE SEZ:
]--------------------------+
> On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Kevin Walker wrote:
> BTW, does anyone remember the name of the Metagame that involved
Rivets.
And I too used to program Macs for a living. Now I have to work for the Evil
Empire of Gates. Macs are *much* easier to program..
* A B S I T * I N V I D I A * V E R B O ** I D E M * S O N A N S *
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----+
| WINCHELL CHUNG
http://www.clark.net/pub/nyrath/home.html |
| Nyrath the nearly wise
nyrath@clark.net |
+---_---+---------------------[ SURREAL SAGE SEZ:
]--------------------------+
| /_\ | Lead me not into temptation - I can find it for myself.
|
| <(*)> |
|
|/_/|\_\|
|
| //|\\ |
|
+///|\\\+---------------------------------------------------------------
-----+
In a message dated 98-01-25 16:04:31 EST, you write:
<< BTW, does anyone remember the name of the Metagame that involved Robots
going around shooting at each other, only to need reprogramming at a crucial
moment? >> "Rivets" if I recall, I shipped it with my household goods so it
won't be back to me until sometime in Febuary....
Randy
Ok, I'll put in my.02 credits worth too....
36, Married (to another RPG gamer, got lucky there:) US Air Force, for another
2 years then I retire and get a "real" job. I started gameing with a freind
who played "Third Riech", and "Tobruk", then went on to Starship Troopers and
Ogre. I got into RPG's during my first year in service AD&D first then
introduced my group to Traveller, and Star Frointers. I've only gotten into
the GZG series lately but so far it's been a blast.
Randy (PS: No CoC though....:)
30, separated, 1 kid (5), 1 dog (blue heeler) and a girlfriend (thought I
should add that) Girlfriend likes painting mini's but not too keen on playing,
at least she loves B5. Started playing board wargames 16 years ago and also
Roleplaying like the original Traveller and Chivalry and Sorcery before being
waylaid by D&D. gone throught the usual stages like games from the evil empire
(WH40k) and historical as well. Working for the Govt now, Royal Australian Air
Force (RAAF) which takes up a bit of my free time.
had to add my 5 cents worth ( don't have 2 cent pieces down here anymore)
> Kevin Walker wrote:
..Snip...(JTL)
> BTW, does anyone remember the name of the Metagame that involved
Kevin, if the game involved 'Boppers' or 'Diveboppers', the name is RIVETS
(spelling optional).
Bye for now,
Wow! and here i was thinking we were mostly young college students, but i
guess not!
This is me:
Cris Mera, 19, no kids, not married, sophomore at A&M university in Texas.
Have never done roleplayind (don't really plan to). I started playing with the
evil empire at the start of their interim period, when they went from a
reasonably decent company to the money sucking @#$%&*@# they are now. Odly
enough my group still ocationally plays. As of a year ago i was introduced to
Full Thrust and have been enthusiastic about GZG ever since. Even to the point
of scratch building wholle fleets! The next step will come in about 2 weeks
when i run a Full Thrust scenario at a con (reasonably sure i'll be Kravak vs.
humans).
Yet another poor soul succumbs to peer pressure...
25, AirForce, married, one daughter(one year old and got her Dad wrapped
around her little finger) living in Omaha, Nebraska USA. Started playing ADnD
then moved into BattleTech(which I still enjoy playing campaign style). Got
sucked into the Evil Empire by buying armies off of people for dirt cheap
which I am in the process of getting rid of so I can afford more
Epic/SG2/DS2 toys. Found a butt load of the micro-machines space ships
for $2.50 per package so I am now into Full Thrust as well.
Heading to Osan Korea in a few months and am desperately hoping that there are
gamers there. If anyone knows anyone in the area please drop me a line.
> Sutherland wrote:
...Snip...(JTL)
> Heading to Osan Korea in a few months and am desperately hoping that
Well, That Chuk Guy, The list got a message from Randy Campbell with the
following address.
OK... OK... Time to unburden my soul.
23, single (Thanks a heap Gina), college student working part time at
Video Store, trying to get an op/ed writing job for an local
"alternative" newspaper. I started playing RPGs in middle school, then started
playing Car Wars and Battletech in High School. Had a brief stint with Star
Fleet Battles during my early college years, but soon moved into Full Thrust.
Afterwards, got into Flintloque (With me Ork laddies ready to kick Ole' Bonies
Arse!), Epic 40K, and B5W. Right now, I'm moving into Fantasy Rules! (WHY
DIDN'T I WAIT UNTIL THE 2nd EDITION?!?!) and Brother Against Brother. (my
first and hopefully only move into histrorical wargaming.)
Later,
> All right then, here goes...
> going around shooting at each other, only to need reprogramming at a
Rivets!! I've got a copy lurking somewhere....
> On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Allan Goodall wrote:
> 2) There is a third definition of wargaming: paintball games. I've
Paintball is not wargaming. It is a sport. We're trying very hard to
erase any warlike imagery, but for the general public guns+shooting
at each other equals war. Sigh...
Sorry for the interruption. It's just that after four years at national
championship level, I'm a bit tired of explaining I'm not a
Rambo-wannabe.
Hey! Daleks v. humans... sounds good!! Can we see some of your unit data specs
and weapon systems?
Mike Elliott
______________________________ Reply Separator
____________________________
_____
Subject: RE: Age and Complexity
Author: owner-ftgzg-l@bolton.ac.uk at INTERNET
Date: 25/01/1998 13:38
I wasn't on the list when this thread first started, but I thought I'd add my
name to the roster:
Age: 24 (just), co-habitating with partner (ooh - a sin!), one son (1yr
on
the 30th Jan - Happy Birthday Cullen!).
Started playing AD&D and 40K (arghhh!) about 1989, still playing AD&D (DM for
8 years), but branched out into Call of Cthulhu and Magic the Gathering (is
that branching OUT?!?!). I stopped playing 40K after spending more time
arguing small, pedantic rules than playing the game and having to take out a
second mortgage to pay for the figures. Also, GW have become too
'cliquey' - "You have to play our games, with our figures and no other"
(it sounds like it'll become a religious cult!). At our club, we have a lot of
teenagers who play 40K, and it's difficult to persuade them to play something
else. SGII is very popular at the moment amongst us 'older' (relatively)
gamers. I must say that, although the SGII rules are, in and of themselves,
quite simple, they can cover any circumstance and thus are extremely elegant.
At the moment, we are doing a campaign involving Daleks Vs. Humans,
incorporating almost every time period imaginable. This is one of the
strengths of SGII: the fact that you can have almost any type of army and
incorporate it.
Hmmm, looks like I'm the old guy again! Ah, well it is as they say a long
story, but I'll try to keep it short. I'm 51, on my third relationship, no
kids. Began wargaming in 1963 with AH Tactics, Dispatcher
(if any of you remember this game!!) and U-Boat.
After a stint in the military from 1966 to '69, I began playing miniatures
using old minifigs, hinchliffe and scruby figures. Have spent most of my adult
life involved in miniature gaming of one sort or another. My heart is in
historical gaming (I love Napoleonics, Ancients and ACW), but I playtested
Star Wars, D&D (although I didn't know if at the time!) and I enjoy the
occasional board game still. Jon Tuffley got me back into microscale gaming
with DS2 and I love
the system! SGII was a big surprise - fastest moving game for its
level of complexity I've EVER played, and I've played a lot of them.
Excuse me?
What's FR?
Mike Elliott
______________________________ Reply Separator
____________________________
_____
Subject: Re: Age and Complexity
Author: owner-ftgzg-l@bolton.ac.uk at INTERNET
Date: 25/01/1998 23:08
All right, I'll bite...I was avoiding this thread, but I'm outnumbered...I
surrender...
19, came into mini gaming with a cousin's copy of FT, bought DS2, recently
bought SG2. Did the Munchkin:the Addiction thing in junior high, got out...was
tempted by the Evil Empire at various times, never had enough cash (why did
they drop ManOWar, anyway? Looked cool..) so GZG was my intro to mini gaming.
Have also got into 15mm fantasy (Hordes of the Things), am avoiding the
temptation to get 'just one more' mini system. (FR!, in my
case...)
Do some RPGing (Rolemaster 'Viking" theme campaign at the moment) and a bit of
board wargaming (WiF FE)...read alot of SF and Fantasy...great fan of David
Drake, similar military SF...influences my take on DS2 and SG2.
This is more about me than you probably wanted to know...tough:) I didn't
start this thread. Interesting, tho.
Welcome aboard Joe, nice to have you along, and no we don't hold any
previous gaming experiences against you on this list !?! :-)
Mike Elliott
______________________________ Reply Separator
> On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Kevin Walker wrote:
<snip>
> BTW, does anyone remember the name of the Metagame that involved
Rivets.
Geez-leweeze, this thread has taken on a life of its own!
I already gave you guys my vitals (age, SO (or lack thereof), kids (or lack
thereof)) in a way earlier msg, so what the hey, I guess I'll supplement it
with a brief gaming history. This *should* bore some of you to death!
;-)
<ramble>
Started out with RPGs and wargames almost at the same time about 20 years ago.
Had been frequenting a magazine/bookstore and discovered the old "The
Space Gamer" magazines. Picked up a couple and became intrigued, especially
with the
low-cost games that were advertised on the back (this was back when
Metagaming
had something like 6 games to it's name - that I know of, anyway).
Placed an order for Ogre, received Chitin:I. Decided to not complain, but
check out what I got. I liked it, but couldn't get my younger bros to play it
much, so I
solo-played it a lot. Then ordered Ogre (got it finally) and Melee.
About the same time I found the boxed version of DnD and saved up enough $$ to
purchase
my first Real Wargame - Arnhem: A Bridge Too Far. Haven't been able to
play it much, but still got it.:) Quickly after that picked up a few more
Metagaming Microgames and some boardgames (Tactics II, for instance; my
parents gave me
Risk for x-mas because that's the only thing they understood). And more
quickly gathered a group of neighborhood kids, including my brothers, into a
DnD world
of adventures, in which I was DM for 95% of the games. :-/ (others DM'd
when I bitched too much about always DMing and wanting to play sometimes, but
it quickly became apparent that the adventures I had for them were better than
the ones they came up with; so much for trying to play a lot, though I did get
a few memorable sessions in when I found the local college gaming group).
Discovered Starfire when it first came out and purchased every incarnation of
the game that I could find after that. Played that more than any other
(because I could find opponents for *that*!). Juggled my time between gaming,
astronomy,
and photography for a number of years, then mid-college found climbing,
too. So
much for lots of free time. ;-) Discovered during college a small game
shop which carried starship miniatures (the Superior line!) and picked up a
handful that my meager funds would allow. Then the minis disappeared and I was
greatly
disappointed (well, up 'til recently last year ;-). Played a little of
the Superior Wars game with the miniatures, but didn't really have enough of
them to make a worthy game (I had an eclectic collection, but I did have at
least one of each destroyer:).
Kept up mostly with Ogre, Melee/Wizards/GURPs, Starfire, and SFB during
the college years (threw some Champions in there, too, but didn't last long
due to the fluid nature of the gaming group I was familiar with and my
class/work
schedule) before graduating and moving on to my job with Hubble. Picked up on
the Magic event when it came out in Beta form and thought it a really fun and
good idea - but watched it quickly go from Magic: The Gathering to
Money: The Sucking, so only play occassionally now with the cards I picked up
long ago. Discovered FT from an old college friend of mine during one of my
climbing adventures out in Colorado back in '94. Instantly converted and
dropped SFB like a hot potato (had been running PBeM games of SFB for almost a
half dozen years at this point). Couldn't find many opponents in the area, so
started the PBeM stuff with FT. Found a couple other card games that are
worthwhile (FLUXX
- only ever need *1* deck, and if you want more cards, you make 'em up
yourself! - and the new B5 card game), and picked up SGII and DSII a
couple years ago, but haven't played too many sessions of either (again, that
lack of opponents thing). Was involved with playtesting of the B5Wars game,
but AOG
managed to totally not credit my group whatsoever. :-/ Have dabbled a
little in Silent Death, and think I would like it, but haven't justified the
cost of picking it up for (Lord knows I have a ton of games I've picked up
over the years that I played only once or twice, or never at all, for lack of
interested opponents). I have almost every MicroGame there is (unfortunately I
just discovered I lost my rulesbook to WarpWar a couple months ago; <sigh>),
but haven't played half of them (that bloody lack of opponents thing again!
though nowadays it's also lack of time).
Never seen CoC. Much less played it. Back into a limited engagement ADnD
campaign being run by an ex-co-worker (when *he* has time!), but half
the time I can't attend due to other things going on in Life (so I make 'guest
appearances':).
Have met a handful of people from this list in RL (some of them no longer on
the list due to Real Life interferences; more's the pity since they had, and
no doubt still have, plenty to contribute), and have enjoyed each meeting.
It's a most cool group of folk here (yes, even you, Aaron ;-). Looking
forward to seeing those of you I haven't met yet who can make it to the GZG
East Coast Con next month.
</ramble>
Mk
> And I too used to program Macs for a living.
Yes, but admit it: The EvilEmpire at least gives you something to carp about.
And (as much as I hate to say it), MS occaisionally gets
something almost right - when you're that big, you have to (even if
accidentally) get things right once and a while.
If you've ever tried to install OS/2 or any brand of UNIX, you'll
appreciate the brain dead install on many of the MS products....
And I always thought a Mac was a great machine if you needed to fetch email or
do word processing. If you want to crunch numbers or do advanced graphics, get
an SGI box. If you want a good (undocumented
mind you) kernel, get OS/2. If you want something everyone everywhere
uses for almost everything and for which almost all apps are written, get an
MS product..... ubiquity is both a blessing and a curse. Least Common
Denominator may be not so wonderful, but it sure beats "We
don't support that..... (a la OS/2)...."
:) Thomas Barclay
/************************************************
> I find the demographics of the list quite interesting. And have to
Actually, two brief comments to that: 1. The demographics are interesting. A
lot more mature (age wise) gamers on this list and I think that play these GZG
games than I might have suspected. Says a lot about the games' satisfaction
factor. It's also nice to know I don't have to give up gaming at 30. 2. I
hadn't thought about it, but I second the self congratulation
here - this list is amazing. I've signed onto other listservs, and
wanted to bail within a day due to the low signal-noise ratio - lots
of noise, not much intelligence. Even the 'nostalgia' discussions here provide
a fascinating insight into the history of our gaming industry, and the minis
that go with them. And its nice to see the people who write the games
monitoring and kibitzing in the
discussions - they have a perspective that is valuable and their
rules knowledge and understanding is a real asset to the list. You have to
like smaller companies! Long live GZG!
:) Tom
/************************************************
> At 15:05 25/01/98 -0600, you wrote:
> BTW, does anyone remember the name of the Metagame that involved Robots
> going around shooting at each other, only to need reprogramming at a
That was Rivets- the game was supposedly gash, but the illustrations
were cute.
As we're all doing our gaming CVs: Age 35, single, biologist
I started with miniatures (mostly Airfix), at first just as toys then using
Donald Featherstone and Charles Grant rules courtesy of Morningside public
library; I was a founder of the school wargames club in '74, a few years after
which we discovered 1) D&D (which we abandoned later in favour of Chivalry &
Sorcery) 2) Board wargames
3) Microgames- I'm still very fond of OGRE/GEV and Warpwar
(which
had some very nice "believeable" illustrations- also by Winchell Chung,
weren't they?
My first metals were Minifigs Middle-earth, and VERY primitive they were
too. My space fleet is still based on ancient Garrison Starcruisers from the
late '70s, with a bunch of odds and ends and Micromachines.
Oh, and by the way, has anyone else here tried Mecha Carnage?
> On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Robert Crawford wrote:
> Come to think of it, does anyone know if they still
They might. I just saw this weekend at my local gaming store a copy of the
original game and the new game.
> Paintball is not wargaming. It is a sport. We're trying very hard to
I haven't payed paintball in a few years. Used to play back around 10 years
ago with a team of regulars. I don't think most of us have played in at least
8 years. But on to the part that relates.
Paintball is not real war. Whereas it is true West Point uses it to train, and
the military has developed a number of paintball rounds that will fire from
real weapons (with attendant noise, recoil, and capacity to fire Full Auto)
which are about a zillion times more accurate than.68 FWJ (Full Wax Jacket) as
we liked to jokingly call our standard paintballs. Even having said that, the
West Pointers know that the paintball gun has different behaviours, you can't
really be killed, and the tactics you learn in paintball might well be suicide
in a real engagement. Now, some stuff you learn is useful
too - take cover, aim, if you are exposed MOVE!, support each other,
etc - is valid. Cover from a paintball might well be permeable to
7.62N or 5.56N however..... so the Team Coach for West Point makes a point to
bring these differences out.
I was a local Primary Reserve member in an Infantry unit. I went paintballing
with unit members vs. a local comics store contingent. The unit was wiped out.
Some soreheads carped that their C7s or FNs
wouldn't have deflected off branches, etc. etc. - until one of my
chums (a Sgt.) pointed out that if a civilian in purple coveralls with no
military training could get close enough to score kills on the soldiers using
a relatively inaccurate tool (paintball gun), just imagine what a trained
enemy soldier with a rifle could accomplish.
The guys that were smart enough to learn a lesson did - Experience,
Fieldcraft, Teamwork, and Intelligence are the things that let you survive and
win at Paintball, and those count for a lot in modern conflict too. So even
though paintball isn't war, there are some lessons there for us all. And
nothing gets the addrenalin racing like the snap of a paintball zipping past
you.....
Almost uniformly the paintballers I have met are a courteous, pleasant lot,
and most of the fields I've played at have been professional and well
refereed. It's a real pity more folk don't come out and play at a good field
with a sportsmanlike opposition then they'd discover paintball is a fun, safe
(as most sports), and exciting (more than most sports!) hobby. It isn't a
bunch of
militant, gun toting, Rambo-esque Spec Ops Wannabees.
T.
/************************************************
> Los wrote:
> [quoted text omitted]
Snipage!
> Anyway he had a friend over and these two 8 year olds had made up
What kind of erratta? My freind and I started mini-gaming that
way....We
started moving these old plastic medieval mini's around on his bedroom floor.
At first we just knocked over one man on the other side (simple!) After a
while we added a d6 roll, whoever rolled higher knocked over the lower roller.
Men could move 5", and Archers could attack over anything within 2 feet. I
have many fond memories of those games....
> [quoted text omitted]
snippage!
> Los
> > And I too used to program Macs for a living.
Replying to my own post? It seems some of you are using EvilEmpire(tm) in
conjunction with what I assume is GW in the UK? As opposed to MS in Seattle? I
may have just had a crossed wire here
(well two, since the reply wasn't really meant to go to the list -
Apologies to all for that - this isn't comp.os.anything.advocacy). A
thousand pardons. Whenever I here Evil Empire....that's the one I'm
thinking of - run (a la Ghengis Khan) by Bill Gates, world's richest
nerd.
This brings to mind the question of which organization had EvilEmpire attached
to it first. I suspect MicroSpunge did, but I'm not sure.
And has anyone heard the old saw "Politics/Economics is merely a
continuation of war by other means" (or something to that effect). If that is
true, then a game simulating the corporate world and hostile takeovers could
be considered (in some lights) a "wargame"......:)
Kyle Klingler:
> On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Robert Crawford wrote:
Hmmm... doesn't Avalon Hill have a website?
> > Anyway he had a friend over and these two 8 year olds had made up
I had a variant on standard toy soldiers. Started with either Airfix
1/32nd scale (or 1/72nd) from WW2 or other periods. We used to use
the 1/32nds with terrain and then we'd take turns picking our force
(didn't have points, but we knew the better figures from the worse) then set
them up in cover and then we'd take turns salvoing the other with sucker
tipped darts from spring loaded dart guns. If you
knocked down a standing/kneeling figure, he was dead. If you flipped
over a guy lying down (I specifically remember a Japanese figure with an LMG
that was really hard to overturn) he was dead. Eventually we got to using a
Tennis ball at intervals to simulate artillery (this could flip vehicles!).
Good thing Airfix made its figures pretty
tough. I still have racks of 1/72nd scale WWII and a bunch of 1/32nd
scale buried away in an old toy box.
My uncle used to work for Palitoy, and I had a whole medeival castle and a
bunch of really spiffy figures (knights that had a stand, legs, a belt, a
torso, two arms, a head, and a weapon and shield that were all separate and
most interchangable). They were great! Wish I still
had that castle. It would be awesome in 25mm - had Merlons, towers,
main gates, and all in about the right scale for 25mm. The figures would have
went well with 25mm fantasy. Alas, I fear this treasure trove (and the
Cowboys, Indians, and western log bunkhouse) are
gone..... sigh.
:) Tom
/************************************************
> Donald Hosford wrote:
> What kind of erratta? My freind and I started mini-gaming that
Actually I recommended that if a guy was behind "cover", he got a saving roll,
odd he dies even he lived. (Trying to keep it simple. However it is clearly a
more fun game if you have each guy roll "to hit and to Save, with a modifier
for cover plus a set movement rate in inches. I'll send it along.!
We'll have this ruleset up to ASL size before long!
> On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Brian Burger wrote:
This is one of those cases where your darker side knows what's good for
you. Give in to temptation -- Fantasy Rules! is much better than HOTT.
> Greeting All :)
I am glad to see that GZG appeals to a range of ages and
nationalities.Profile: 34 next month No Kids 2 cats
1 wife ;-)
Nationality: American Ethnic: Human
This has been an interesting thread so far, even though it is off topic at
times. I have been able to identify a few people within the first
sentence or two (my mailer only gives me the source as FTGZG-L) So now
its my turn....
I'm 31, married, no children but my wife and I are trying again after loosing
a girl at birth last July. I was concluding a PBeM game that I was running at
that time and got some great support and messages from the players who were
mostly list members.
My gaming life began sometime in the late 1970's when I saw an ad in 'Boy's
Life' magazine for this cool miniature metal starship. Star Wars was still big
in my thoughts so I sent in to ALNAVCO for more information. I got back a
bunch on information on Superior's Starfleet Wars miniatures and other games.
I wanted to get one of every mini but no funds to do so at that age. I soon
got into AD&D, Car Wars, Battletech, and SPIs War of the Ring. I kept on
looking for good space combat games though and picked
up SFB. I though "Starfleet Wars" / "Starfleet Battles", they should
be similar.......WRONG. I also picked up FASA's Star Trek Starship Tactical
Combat Simulator and Leviathan in addition to TFGs Starfire but none of
them fit the type of fleet battles that I wanted to play.
I published a Car Wars fanzine called 'Duelist's Design Forum' from my dorm
room. It is the type of thing that you would now see on the web. It lasted
only a few issues but was fun (Newsroom on the Apple IIC:). I drifted away
from gaming some time after that since Car Wars had moved away from its
original feel and it was too hard keeping up with all the
expansions. Similar things happened to Battletech.
So then I'm out of college and not much into gaming anymore but I still hit
the game store every month or two looking for a decent space combat game but I
found nothing after FASA lost their Star Trek rights. Then one day I'm looking
through a copy of 'Vortex' magazine and see a review for a game called "Full
Thrust". I quickly buy the magazine and memorize the review. Next time I'm at
the store I ask about ordering the game from GeoHex (the end of the review
mentions that GeoHex just got the rights to distribute FT in the US).
Unfortunately there is no listing for GeoHex in the distributor's catalog so I
wait a year and a half before asking again.
This time GeoHex and FT are there and I order it. One week later FT shows up
and I'm so happy a couple of days later I'm back at the hobby store and order
More Thrust. 3 months go by and nothing has shown up yet so while
visiting the in-laws in Minneapolis, I pick up MT there. I survived on
these basic rules for another couple years, checking the stores when I could
to see if the Fleet Book was out like it said it would be in MT
;)
The next major event is when I got internet access at my office in November
1996. My first search is "Full Thrust" and it brings back a link to Mark S's
UFTWWWP. I click the link and I'm in heaven. I waste paper printing off an 8"
stack of rules and ships to take home. I then subscribed to this list, talked
to other people for the first time who had some of the same interests as me,
went to GenCon for the first time in 12 years, and generally am having a good
time.
There is a down side to it though. My wife is getting tired of me dealing with
my "spaceship games". She has been pretty good and I have been spending too
much time in this miniature world. I also now have this strange compulsion to
buy almost every space combat game I can find. My
luck has been almost too good on this since I've gotten 25+ new games
in the last several months. There are a few I'm still looking for though
(Voidstriker and Galaktik Taktik).
That's my story, thanks for reading the whole way through.
[snip]
> I had a variant on standard toy soldiers. Started with either Airfix
That sounds an *awful* lot like Pressman's battle game, now on the shelves at
toy stores near you. They use "battle balls" instead of
darts--plastic balls about .7" diameter fired from catapults, cannon,
or mortar to knock down your opponent's figures. Pretty fair detail
on the figures, too, but not much variety of poses. About GW (30-35mm)
scale. English civil war types (I think, but I'm no expert!), pirates, and
such.
[snip]
> :) Tom
- Sam
> Thomas Barclay wrote:
...Snip...(JTL)
> Almost uniformly the paintballers I have met are a courteous,
> T.
Thomas, I completely agree with your statements. I will not relate any stories
that deal with the "almost" crowd.
Bye for now,
On Sun, 25 Jan 1998 18:24:49 -0500, Robert Crawford <crawford@iac.net>
wrote:
> Come to think of it, does anyone know if they still
That's still open for debate. On rec.games.board an AH rep mentioned that they
still have a fair number of the original game for sale. It's unclear if this
is real old stock or if they reprinted it. It's not a bad game, though I hear
that there is a bug (pun intended) in the main scenario that makes it
impossible for the bug player to lose. I haven't cracked mine open in years,
so I can't be positive about the validity of this "bug."
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:30:29 +0200 (EET), Mikko Kurki-Suonio
> <maxxon@swob.dna.fi> wrote:
> Paintball is not wargaming. It is a sport. We're trying very hard to
> championship level, I'm a bit tired of explaining I'm not a
I agree. It bugged the hell out of me that the kept calling it wargaming. I
think that it's starting to change, though. I haven't played it quite a while.
Maybe this year...
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:59:57 -0500 (EST), "Yeah, yeah, enough with the
Multipass. She KNOWS it's a Multipass already!" <KOCHTE@stsci.edu> wrote:
> Never seen CoC. Much less played it. Back into a limited engagement
Not much to compare between the two games, other than they both use a certain
degree of roleplaying. After I FINALLY get my web site up,
you'll be able to take a boo at some CoC scenario write-ups. I don't
know if that will push you towards CoC or have you running away kicking or
screaming, though...
OK...
Not only am I chiming in, but this is my first post to this list...just joined
today..
I'm 28. Engaged, no kids (thank the Lord, that would be less money to
spend on little metal ships/men) Starting with D&D in 79. Moved to AD&D
and then out to just about everything else. Started Battletech in 85 or so.
Moved into Epic. Moved to 40K. Moved to anything else trying to get away from
40K. I agree with the previous poster, Why did they cancel Man O' War, it was
IMEO their best game. Still play a little 40K, GURPS, Warhammer Fanatasy Role
Play. Play FT, Warzone, A Knight to Dismember, Ancients, Johnny Reb etc etc
etc ad nauseum. I love FT and am looking forward to communicating with
everyone about all GZGames.
> On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Donald Hosford wrote:
> What kind of erratta? My freind and I started mini-gaming that
I saw some simple rules for army men once.
Each man could move about 2 inches per turn. When a man was touching an enemy,
you and your friend would pick up your repective men by the heads, and twirl
them against each other. Men that got knocked out of your fingers were
casualties (note that both men could be killed).
Cannons were easy, just launch a marble from the cannon. Any men knocked down
were casualties.
* A B S I T * I N V I D I A * V E R B O ** I D E M * S O N A N S *
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----+
| WINCHELL CHUNG
http://www.clark.net/pub/nyrath/home.html |
| Nyrath the nearly wise
nyrath@clark.net |
+---_---+---------------------[ SURREAL SAGE SEZ:
]--------------------------+
| /_\ | Anything not nailed down is a cat toy.
|
| <(*)> |
|
|/_/|\_\|
|
| //|\\ |
|
+///|\\\+---------------------------------------------------------------
-----+
> On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Rob Paul wrote:
> 3) Microgames- I'm still very fond of OGRE/GEV and Warpwar
Guilty as charged. If you look at the illustration on the title page, the
system ship detaching from the warpship was based on a Larry Niven
"singleship" from PROTECTOR. I like my illustration with Hard Science, like my
Science Fiction.
* A B S I T * I N V I D I A * V E R B O ** I D E M * S O N A N S *
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----+
| WINCHELL CHUNG
http://www.clark.net/pub/nyrath/home.html |
| Nyrath the nearly wise
nyrath@clark.net |
+---_---+---------------------[ SURREAL SAGE SEZ:
]--------------------------+
Well, I did my bit to try and pass the torch.
I have a nephew, which my sister describes as being just like me.
So, recently when they visited, I arrived with presents.
<whip out a copy of Starfire>
Here is a neat-o keen-o game about interstellar battlefleets
having galactic wars. It so impressed an SF author named David Weber...
<whip out a copy of Weber & White's novel CRUSADE>...that he wrote this book.
It so impressed the makers of Starfire...
<whip out a copy of the Crusade supplement for Starfire>...that they made it
into an expansion of the Starfire game.
I also gave him a copy of Ogre... which I autographed. <grin>
* A B S I T * I N V I D I A * V E R B O ** I D E M * S O N A N S *
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----+
| WINCHELL CHUNG
http://www.clark.net/pub/nyrath/home.html |
| Nyrath the nearly wise
nyrath@clark.net |
+---_---+---------------------[ SURREAL SAGE SEZ:
]--------------------------+
> Paintball is not wargaming. It is a sport. We're trying very hard to
Having only played paintball 3 times, I have to say that it is easily the most
exciting, fun, and frightening sport I have ever played.
My first time out I probably got hit as many times as I hit someone else. I
had some of the basics down, but tended to make poor decisions about choosing
terrain. I also spent too much time trying to find a good place to set myself
up in an impregnable position. It did teach me that there is no such word as
impregnable...
The second time out I did much much better. I kept moving all the time, kept
low and crouched, ran so hard I could hardly walk for days. My cyclist friends
and I just annihilated a team of guys in the Canadian militia (weekend
warriors I believe they are called...). In the first battle I managed to take
out 12 of the "enemy" (out of 20). This continued for the first half of the
day until I became a "marked man". After that the other side spent about as
much time looking for me as they did trying to capture our flag;).
The third time I spent far more time trying to coordinate efforts, and
realized why the military invests so much time in discipline.
Sorry about the ramble but it does tie in to wargaming. If you like miniature
battles and RPGs, you really should try paintballing at least once. You won't
regret it (except while trying to negotiate
stairs the following day - don't say I didn't warn you...).
> And I too used to program Macs for a living.
No, sorry, I refuse to admit that.
I love my mac and always will.
> Tony Christney wrote:
...Snip...(JTL)
> I love my mac and always will.
It has been said many times that love is blind. This I can understand.
Bye for now,
> At 19:05 1/26/98, Allan Goodall wrote:
Interestingly enough, a few years ago there was an article in Action Pursuit
Games where an enthusiastic minature gamer pointed out the similarities
between minature wargames and paintball, and his love for both.
In defense of this view, I've been a 'recball' player for quite some time, and
my favorite paintball games are scenarios... which are wargames in effect. In
point of fact, there are a few of my more sedentary gaming friends who I'd
like to get on the paintball field just to point out to them how truly
difficult it is to command men in a tactical situation and how much training
and morale matters more than hardware. In these respects, paintball is a
wargame, because it simulates conflict.
But I agree with Mikko: I'm no Rambo wannabe just because I enjoy playing
'let's pretend' with gun-like objects (or little metal war machines, for
that matter.) Also, as Mikko is a tourney player (what team?), I realize
the rules/format make paintball resemble fire combat the way that
football resembles melee warfare: vaguely.
IMHO, most wargamers are not Rambo wannabees because they have a much better
grasp of military hardware and tactical realities than the writers of Rambo
did.:)
> At 19:10 1/26/98, Allan Goodall wrote:
More like 'running away, screaming and gibbering madly.' Make that SAN
roll...
"Great Cthulu rises from sunken R'yleh and eats everyone, no saving throw."
- end of the Paranoia module 'Yellow Clearance Black Box Blues'.
> That John guy wrote:
> Sutherland wrote:
....Snip...(JTL)
> Heading to Osan Korea in a few months and am desperately hoping that
Well, That Chuk Guy, The list got a message from Randy Campbell with the
following address. campbelr@pop3.kunsan.af.mil
Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
(If I have again stepped on list protocall, please advise.)
Bye for now. John L.>>
Sorry, I left there in December, (Oh LORD AND LADY YES I"M GLAD TO BE BACK!
:)
Sorry, still get carried away.... but I dropped a line to Chuck with some
hints and tips anyway.....
Thanks John:)
Dear Mark S.
Can you please give me your views on Brother Against Brother. A good freind of
mine is contemplating buying it. Could you also tell me the average number of
figures needed to play.
Thank you in anticipation
Nic Robson
> At 12:03 AM 1/26/98 -0600, you wrote:
> And I too used to program Macs for a living.
Deeply seconded....
If God had meant us to use PCs, he would NEVER have given us the Mac....
<VERY BIG GRIN...>
> *And I too used to program Macs for a living.
get things right once and a while.
> No, sorry, I refuse to admit that.
> I love my mac and always will.
??? Macs are what we Brits wear when its raining....
I'll try to keep this post on topic by relating my story about how I got
started in FT. I'm a fan of anime and had been getting a great magazine called
AnimeUK. In it I saw an ad for anime miniatures (I still wonder what the Yuki
& Suki figs look like) and a game called Full Thrust. What caught my eye about
the game was that the ad said that it had been used at some convention (whose
name I can't recall) to run a game of Star
Blazers/Yamato. I had been looking for a system to use to run my own
game using the plastic models I had. (I had played at a convention a version
using modified Star Hawk rules from TSR's Star Frontiers) Unfortunately at
the time I lacked the know-how to make an international order, so I
start watching for it at conventions. Finally I found a copy at a con around
1990-91.
What impressed me most about the game was the simplicity. I had been playing
SFB and was getting burned out by the complexity. In one of the earlier
battles my friends and I fought using FT & MT I used my Gamilon
Triple-deck Carrier model and its fighters. That game is when we
discovered the power of missiles. Which reminds me of the time when during a
battle one of my ships was under attack from enemy torpedo & heavy fighters
and had no defenses. I solved the problem by having my wave gun ship which had
come to a complete stop spin toward the fighters and make a clean sweep of the
area of fighters. Valuable lessons were learned on both sides.
Just a minor correction. I believe (unless I'm mistaken) it was Knight Hawks
(from TSR) not Star Hawks.
:) Tom.
> At 7:13 PM +1100 27/1/98, Nic Robson wrote:
Just to confuse you: i am MarkS
Mark Siefert is Mark S.?geddit?
No. I have no experience of that rules system
By The Way, my surfer beat Duncan Robertson's to the waves in the DS2 demo
game and i forgot to collect an unpainted surfer from you. I'll try to
remember next time I order but looking at the pile to paint from 3 days ago
that may be a while
Cheers
MarkS
All the way from GallifreyÂ
> Los wrote:
> Donald Hosford wrote:
Cool!! 8D
Actually...I did sit down last year, and typed my original hand scralled
notes.
The original notes used both sides of a piece of paper. My typed up version
takes two full sheets when printed...
> Thomas Barclay wrote:
> > > Anyway he had a friend over and these two 8 year olds had made up
Was it a full castle? In my early gaming, we never had enough mini's or
building materials to do a full castle seige. So we just did one side. You
wern't allowed to go around the ends.