A new solution to the buying/painting miniatures problem

...and it also solves the "now _tonight_ this Victoria BB is a Sa'Vasku
heavy carrier" problem...

http://www.zcorp.com/products/printersdetail.asp?ID=2

All you need is the CAD files...

R

> Roger Burton West wrote:

> ...and it also solves the "now _tonight_ this Victoria BB is a Sa'Vasku
Nice - although not quick. A 1" thick model would take nearly three
hours at the highest resolution.

Wonder how much they cost....?

> All you need is the CAD files...
If you want to play Star Wars games, there's always
http://scifi3d.theforce.net/

For other models, there are always 3D scanners:

http://www.cyberware.com/products/m15Info.html

3D Scanner + 3D Printer = 3D Photocopier !

> Subject: A new solution to the buying/painting miniatures problem

and US$31800 plus shipping, installation, etc plus $1-2/cubic inch for
powder and dye. I don't know about you, but if someone were able to offer
prepainted minis "any design, any color you like--provide the files or
pick one of the paint patterns shown here"...

Wasn't there a company called Toybuilder that was going to use rapid prototype
techniques to make one of a kind toys?

Michael Brown

[quoted original message omitted]

I am not sure I understand what is going on here. Do you stick the model in
the special attachment thing and then it basically paints it for you?

[quoted original message omitted]

On Fri, May 23, 2003 at 08:14:27AM -0700, Bradley, Jason (US -
> Minneapolis) wrote:

Nope, you give it the 3D file and it builds it layer by layer -
optionally with a paint job built in. :-)

R

Bizarre, so it builds a 3D model from the designs you feed it? Does it use
some sort of liquid or powder polymer?

[quoted original message omitted]

My question is just how robust the final product is. They have prototyping
equipment here, but I lost access via a student that's no longer in a class
using it.

Also, $31800US is the low end machine, right?

The_Beast

ACtually, the ZCast technology looks to be more useful. You could make up some
molds to fairly quick.

http://www.zcorp.com/products/zcast.asp

I would bet the stuff produced by this is fairly soft, but I bet you can make
a mold off of it. Talk about rapid miniature development.

Roger

On 23-May-03 at 11:06, laserlight@quixnet.net (laserlight@quixnet.net)
wrote:
> >Subject: A new solution to the buying/painting miniatures problem

> I would bet the stuff produced by this is fairly soft, but I bet you

Rapid prototyping has been about for awhile; it was the pre-painted,
ready
to go model that had me excited... ;->=

> ACtually, the ZCast technology looks to be more useful. You could

I saw and wondered about that; are those molds appropriate for figs? Don't
look flexible enough for the really detailed stuff...

The_Beast

Does anyone have a friend who works at FORD R&D?

We could ask them to knock a few figures out during lunch break...:)

[quoted original message omitted]

> devans@nebraska.edu wrote:

> My question is just how robust the final product is.
I believe it's a wax-like product, and from what I've read it will break

if not handled gently. It's intended as a prototype from which moulds
can then be made for mass-production.

Apparently the Z-Corp machines are cheaper but produce a rougher finish.

All of them make their models in layers, so they would have a slight stepped
appearance (although with a resolution of approaching 300dpi this wouldn't be
immediately obvious).

http://www.protoshape.com/
http://www.3dq.com/default.asp

both offer immediate (and quite quick) 3D printing services at not
unreasonable cost.

> > >http://www.zcorp.com/products/printersdetail.asp?ID=2

I saw a couple prototypes for minis a few years ago from this process. It
was resin-like but had a pretty rough surface which would take some
effort to make smooth enough to be a decent master for a mold.

I there are a couple mini companies currently using these types of machines
but with varying success.   Most of what I have heard is from Agents of
Gaming and what is left of them after they went out of business.   They
had been doing 3D computer models of most ships and thought this would get
ships out more quickly but I don't think that ever happened with their B5
ships. I think their Fleet Action 2: Turning Point minis were 3D printed,
especially since they used the same graphics files as artwork in their
rulebook, unfortuately that artwork included a cylindar on the bottom of the
ship image that was not part of the ship but was added for the minis since
they were small minis and needed a place to connect it to the stand.

Lately they have been trying to get the new Lyran miniatures done for SFB.
They are more than a year behind due do al sorts of issues including the
engines being too small for the rest of the ship. They thought they had them
all ready and cast up a bunch, only to be rejected by ADB because over 50% of
the minis looked like crap and were unusable.

Also Ken Burnside of Ad Astra Games who will be releasing Attack Vector (was
Delta V), the the hard science, true 3D movement game of space combat, this
summer tried to get minis ready for his game and spent a bunch of money
working on it, but with nothing useable so far. From what I have heard, most
3D programs don't work with these machines, and a package called Rhino is
needed. I guess visual 3D programs can leave gaps in surfaces that may look
solid, but when built as a real object, those gaps cause problems.

> Dean Gundberg wrote:

> I saw a couple prototypes for minis a few years ago from this process.
It
> was resin-like but had a pretty rough surface which would take some
Aren't the CAV models all produced by this method?

<snip>

> From what I have heard,
Much of that is down to the skill of the artist rather than any faults with
the software. Also, many of the machines use STL format which isn't

exported by some 3D software packages but Rhino makes a good job of it..

> At 8:23 AM -0700 5/23/03, Bradley, Jason (US - Minneapolis) wrote:

I think it uses a plaster based material or a starch based material.
Apparently you can soak either of the finished model materials in a 2
part resin to get a rubbery quality or even electro-plate them. The
demo animation indicates that you can build complex interior shapes because it
builds it up layer by layer.

http://www.zcorp.com/products/materials.asp

IIRC Toybuilder accepted SolidWorks models.  Of course we all have 3-4
grand sitting around for CAD software:(

Michael Brown

[quoted original message omitted]

> >I saw a couple prototypes for minis a few years ago from this

I think so. As far as I have seen, they have done a good job of it and I have
not heard of any problems Reaper is having with doing the CAV minis this way,
but then I don't follow CAV and the giant walking robot games that closely.

> I would bet the stuff produced by this is fairly soft, but I bet you

Hi Folks,

I was at an event hosted by Alias/Wavefront (very high-end 3d modeling
and
animation sofware developers - their product "Maya" is used extensively
in the movie business, but they also do Industrial Design related stuff) at
their Toronto head office a couple of years ago, and there was a demo of that
system set up and running, punching out sample parts and solid "business
cards".

It was very cool.

They gave me a sample part, which was a label on a chain - and the
"chain" was made of links that were all printed solid at one time BUT with the
gaps between them so that the chain was flexible. Very neat stuff.

As far as coloured finishes go, the colouring is done with standard food
dyes, so while they say "standard RGB - millions of colours", think of
it in primary colour terms from what I saw.

And the material itself was easily strong enough that one could print a
starship model and use the original to make a master pattern (in silver, or
whatever) from which to make production moulds for a spincaster. Depending on
the design of the ship (ie whether or not it had thin protruding bits) you
could just paint the models and play with them... as long as you weren't
bouncing them off the floor, you'd be fine.

As far as the software goes (producing the 3d models), as someone else pointed
out, most of the issues with a good 3d model have to do with the skill of the
software operator not the software itself... And besides, Rhino is a good
sofware package to work with, as far as these things go.
 I
understood from the website that the machines require "solid models" (which is
where the 3d model's math actually describes the entire object, not just the
surface of the object), rather than "surface models" (where the 3d model's
math describes just the surface of the object), and Rhino is known
as a high-quality surface modelling package - but I have no idea if you
can export Rhino models as solid models... I would guess so.

Anyway, it would certainly be fun to be able to order custom printed versions
of your own ship designs...

(this of course presumes you're good enough with the software to be able to
model them effectively... for many of us, the time required to learn the
software would far exceed the time taken to just scratchbuild the starships
from raw materials...:)

Anyway, thank's for pointing it out.