Wayne spake thusly upon matters weighty:
> Mounted infantry shooting.
You have ignored the possibility of SAWs, APSWs, HMGs, or class 1 weapons
mounted on these bikes. (A la Star Wars speeder bike). These should be fired
by a bike operator as if they were a standard HW, but probably (unless someone
fits the bike with some fancy electronics) treated as having Basic
firecontrol. But these weapons are not fired one handed and should be
effective out to their full HW range bands.This should be resolved as normal
vehicle mounted weapons fire
- that is if you have say if you have four bikes firing RFAC/1 using
Basic Firecon, then you use 12" range bands (HW), roll unit quality +
4D6 (one firecon die for each gun) and for impact you treat them as firing at
point targets (D8 impact) or as HW hits versus vehicles.
> Until the suppression counter is removed the mounted infantry can't
I disagree. Why would this not be the case with other vehicles? If I detect
rounds hitting my Grizzly APC, I'd sure as heck move. But SG2 rules say that
if a vehicle does not unsuppress it DOES NOT MOVE and DOES NOT ACT. This
represents hunkering down. If I was on a grav bike getting fired at, I may
move, or I may do an emergency grounding and get behind my bike....
They should be treated as other vehicles. Roll to unsuppress as their first
step. If they unsuppress, they can act normally. Otherwise they eat dirt and
don't move (seek cover). Either that or all vehicles
should follow your thought - anyone getting shot at may choose that
option which is represented by removing suppression then executing a move to
get out of the field of fire.
Perhaps (in general) an alternate vehicle suppression rule could be used.
There is an implication in the existing rules that suppression will never
affect vehicle fire... but the truth is that the vehicle may well have its
outgoing fire affected. Also, the vehicle crew may involuntarily (as far as
the unit commander is concerned) withdraw. or they may hunker down and seek
cover. This range of response is not really covered under current vehicle
suppression rules.
Tom.
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Wayne spake thusly upon matters weighty:
> Mounted infantry shooting.
You have ignored the possibility of SAWs, APSWs, HMGs, or class 1 weapons
mounted on these bikes. (A la Star Wars speeder bike). These should be fired
by a bike operator as if they were a standard HW, but probably (unless someone
fits the bike with some fancy electronics) treated as having Basic
firecontrol. But these weapons are not fired one handed and should be
effective out to their full HW range bands.This should be resolved as normal
vehicle mounted weapons fire
- that is if you have say if you have four bikes firing RFAC/1 using
Basic Firecon, then you use 12" range bands (HW), roll unit quality +
4D6 (one firecon die for each gun) and for impact you treat them as firing at
point targets (D8 impact) or as HW hits versus vehicles.
> Until the suppression counter is removed the mounted infantry can't
I disagree. Why would this not be the case with other vehicles? If I detect
rounds hitting my Grizzly APC, I'd sure as heck move. But SG2 rules say that
if a vehicle does not unsuppress it DOES NOT MOVE and DOES NOT ACT. This
represents hunkering down. If I was on a grav bike getting fired at, I may
move, or I may do an emergency grounding and get behind my bike....
They should be treated as other vehicles. Roll to unsuppress as their first
step. If they unsuppress, they can act normally. Otherwise they eat dirt and
don't move (seek cover). Either that or all vehicles
should follow your thought - anyone getting shot at may choose that
option which is represented by removing suppression then executing a move to
get out of the field of fire.
Perhaps (in general) an alternate vehicle suppression rule could be used.
There is an implication in the existing rules that suppression will never
affect vehicle fire... but the truth is that the vehicle may well have its
outgoing fire affected. Also, the vehicle crew may involuntarily (as far as
the unit commander is concerned) withdraw. or they may hunker down and seek
cover. This range of response is not really covered under current vehicle
suppression rules.
Tom.
/************************************************
> On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, Thomas Barclay wrote:
> Why would this not be the case with other vehicles? If I
Actually, check pg 18 of the SG2 rulebook: "Suppression of vehicles and
buildings does NOT inhibit them from moving, firing and most other actions,
but it does prevent their crew or occupants from doing anything that involves
leaving the protection of the vehicle or structure..."
> If I was on a grav bike
Given the above rules for regular vehicles, how do we then treat mounted
troops? How about the following: After the _first_ suppression chit,
mounted units may move but not fire - they're more interested in finding
cover. If a second or third suppression chit is added, units may neither
move nor fire until suppression is cleared, as per normal infantry - at
this point, the mounted troopers bail off their bikes and hunker down.
> Perhaps (in general) an alternate vehicle suppression rule could be
This is actually exactly what the book says...
> but the truth is that the vehicle
It seems a bit harsh for regular vehicles, but you could apply the 'first
suppression equals movement only' idea for them as well, or 'first
suppression allows only movement or rally/de-suppression actions'.
My $0.02,
Brian spake thusly upon matters weighty:
> On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, Thomas Barclay wrote:
> > rules say that if a vehicle does not unsuppress it DOES NOT MOVE and
> > DOES NOT ACT. This represents hunkering down.
I wondered about that. I stand aghast. Many pardons. Mea Culpa. And to those
whom I afflicted this upon recently, a thousand pardons.
For the record, such suppression SHOULD probably effect (especially in the
days of more manual fire control but even today when wincing or flinching when
your turret gongs as a HKP bounces off of it can make your aim crappy) vehicle
firing. Moving should be okay.
> > If I was on a grav bike
> > get behind my bike....
I like it. Simple. Good solution.
> > Perhaps (in general) an alternate vehicle suppression rule could be
> > will never affect vehicle fire...
I know (now) but I'm not sure I agree.
> > but the truth is that the vehicle
> > involuntarily (as far as the unit commander is concerned) withdraw.
A good two cents. Especially pointing out I'm a moron who can't remember stuff
I read... (sigh).
How about
MV = Move MVE = Move, but only as encumbered (if encumbered, may not move)
NOMV = No Move F = Fire
F(-n) = Fire, n die shifts off troop quality
C = Communicate/Transfer Actions/Call Arty
R = Rally/Remove Supp
D = Deploy Troops BT(n) = Involuntary BreakAway (Evade) test at TL n B =
Automatic Breakaway
Infantry Vehicle Air (an idea)
Unsuppr MV,F,C,R MV,F,C,R,D Normal
1st Suppr MVE,R,C MV,F(1),R,C MV,F(1),R,C,BT(2)
2nd Suppr NOMV,R,C MVE,F(2),R,C MV,F(2),R,C,BT(3)
3rd Suppr NOMV,R NOMV,F(3),R,C B
The air stuff I might try since I have rules for infantry AA fire
(with help from Phil P. - I haven't published till I send them to
Phil to look over).
This means in the early stages, you might try to move to get out of target
zone, and you might call for arty. As you get more suppressed, you get less
and less concerned about that (as a ground unit) and more and more concerned
with digging into the dirt. Even armoured vehicles that are multiply
suppressed have a hard time shooting as the crew is shook up by the rounds
that are 'almost!' hitting them. Air units keep moving as their best anti flak
technique is speed. At a certain point, flak is too thick then they bail.
Just a thought.
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